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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:32:20 PM EDT
[#1]
50 BMG AR Upper.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:32:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Best not to argue with them.
I had one say that guns will be useless and that they would use Molotov cocktails. I mean improvised stuff is fine... but it defies logic to think firearms will have no use. I had someone else say they didn’t own any firearms, but if SHTF they insisted they would be able to get one. They didn’t say how they would get one, I am thinking they were meaning they would get one through whatever means necessary, which kind of sounds like they would be planning on stealing a firearm from somewhere, good luck with that. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:33:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell her your rifle isn’t for tanks and aircraft, it’s for liberals when the booger glue kicks off. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:33:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Feel free to ban me then. 
Bet you jizzed your pants hearing about Comrade Sander's campaign boys wanting to bring back Gulags... |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:34:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any number of us given the ability would do so in a heart beat.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:34:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its really not worth the argument or protentional red flag Those people have their minds made up just the same as we do |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:34:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be fair, a buddy of mine who was a tank commander in Iraq said the fights usually ended when he showed up. Only the really dumb ones stuck around and usually caught rounds from one of the various crew serve size weapons he had mounted. The fuck nuts with RPGs took main gun fire. There usually wasnt much left of them to scrape up. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:36:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best not to argue with them. I had one say that guns will be useless and that they would use Molotov cocktails. I mean improvised stuff is fine... but it defies logic to think firearms will have no use. I had someone else say they didn’t own any firearms, but if SHTF they insisted they would be able to get one. They didn’t say how they would get one, I am thinking they were meaning they would get one through whatever means necessary, which kind of sounds like they would be planning on stealing a firearm from somewhere, good luck with that. I recall one doomsday prepper show about anti gun preppers in the northeast. They would grow enough food so they could share and didn't need guns. If they researched their Napoleon Chagnon they might realize that doesn't cut it. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:37:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Any number of us given the ability would do so in a heart beat. 
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:37:35 PM EDT
[#10]
That shit drives me crazy as well.
You should ask why they feel it would be ok for the government to use that sort of violence against people to take away there constitutional rights and also ask why they would support a government that enacts violence on its citizens. They don’t thing that sort of thing is ok anywhere else in the world, why is it ok for our government to do it? |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:38:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact that some people are comfortable with the thought of their government having the wherewithal to use tanks and aircraft against their citizenry, and in fact are more comfortable with that than they are with the thought of you being armed, tells you all you need to know about them. "Are you really comfortable with the fact that your country's military, which is known for not being that good, seeing as they have yet to 'win' in the middle east, using it's full force against your own country try men, because you disagree with them?" And if they say yes, and you work with them, report them to HR, for threatening remarks. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:38:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We kicked England's ass with a lot of help from other European powers and because England didn't throw it's full power against us. In other words, we got lucky |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:39:35 PM EDT
[#13]
None of these kids has ever heard of Vietnam huh?
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:39:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Wait until they see my Carl Gustov.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:40:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Not many politicians keep a tank parked in their garage.
That's just a random thought that popped into my head. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We kicked England's ass with a lot of help from other European powers and because England didn't throw it's full power against us. In other words, we got lucky |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:42:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would if I could Comrade...
Bet you jizzed your pants hearing about Comrade Sander's campaign boys wanting to bring back Gulags... |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:42:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're right. Most Americans don't realize it became a world war and England was fighting all around the globe. The Colonies generated less revenue than the Caribbean and between the two, England thought the latter was more important. Yorktown could not have been won w/out French assistance. Naval blockade isolated Cornwallis. Rochambeau advised against an open battle like the assault Washington wanted to do. Washington wisely heeded the advice and laid siege instead. Starved out Cornwallis. Yet there was a larger British army under Clinton in NY. So, comparatively speaking, Yorktown was nothing but symbolic. But it was the breaking point since the British figured the Colonies weren't worth the trouble. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:43:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is all I ask these people. "Are you really comfortable with the fact that your country's military, which is known for not being that good, seeing as they have yet to 'win' in the middle east, using it's full force against your own country try men, because you disagree with them?" And if they say yes, and you work with them, report them to HR, for threatening remarks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The fact that some people are comfortable with the thought of their government having the wherewithal to use tanks and aircraft against their citizenry, and in fact are more comfortable with that than they are with the thought of you being armed, tells you all you need to know about them. "Are you really comfortable with the fact that your country's military, which is known for not being that good, seeing as they have yet to 'win' in the middle east, using it's full force against your own country try men, because you disagree with them?" And if they say yes, and you work with them, report them to HR, for threatening remarks.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:43:42 PM EDT
[#20]
The day the government starts using military against the people is the day the government loses the support it needs to retain power.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:44:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I've heard this crap multiple times in recent years and it drives me absolutely crazy. Had a co-worker (liberal as hell) tell me this exact thing the other day at work - "gun owners think they can defeat anything with a rifle - how effective is that rifle going to be against tanks and aircraft?" I reminded her of all the insurgencies throughout history where poor farmers with only small arms kept major military powers on their toes for years and years. I told her, "the last time I checked, the Taliban doesn't have tanks or aircraft either - they wear rags, have little to no transportation, and still (with only small arms) - they haven't been defeated or given up." She had no response to that and walked away. Anyone else encounter this bullshit logic from the left? |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:44:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I've heard this crap multiple times in recent years and it drives me absolutely crazy. Had a co-worker (liberal as hell) tell me this exact thing the other day at work - "gun owners think they can defeat anything with a rifle - how effective is that rifle going to be against tanks and aircraft?" I reminded her of all the insurgencies throughout history where poor farmers with only small arms kept major military powers on their toes for years and years. I told her, "the last time I checked, the Taliban doesn't have tanks or aircraft either - they wear rags, have little to no transportation, and still (with only small arms) - they haven't been defeated or given up." She had no response to that and walked away. Anyone else encounter this bullshit logic from the left? |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:44:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The day the government starts using military against the people is the day the government loses the support it needs to retain power. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:49:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let’s face it.. Our military is way too soft to battle a prolonged insurgency here at home. Morale would quickly plummet and majority would break ranks with their units. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:49:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Give her a Bluray copy of Red Dawn.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:52:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Governments don't actually need popular support to retain power. The problem HK faces is that the PRC is much more powerful and the people of HK are not the people of China. It will be interesting to see how things play out in Iran. Ethnic pride is a powerful thing, and it props up governments that otherwise treat their people like shit. Many in Russia look back fondly on Stalin, who fucked their country up but also fed their ethnic pride by placing them on the stage as one of two superpowers. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:53:04 PM EDT
[#27]
I wouldn’t even worry. With 500,000 troops in the army, you can control what? Two states if lucky?
I got to Iraq in 2008, and we were paying the Iraqis not to fuck with us... Afghanistan, the Afghans we sided with are useless. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:54:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Governments don't actually need popular support to retain power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The day the government starts using military against the people is the day the government loses the support it needs to retain power. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:57:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soft? That's pure BS. Name a country who's military is more battle experienced? As for morale affecting our troops in a civil war, I agree to a point. Even Robert E. Lee could not bring himself to raise his sword against his own family and neighbors. However, he had no compunction to kill his once friends and former fellow officers. No matter who you are, choosing sides will come with a price no matter which side you choose. Don't trust the fool who will not count the cost. Also, I doubt it matters. In the event I'm not sure the role the military would play. It would likely play out with states calling out their national guards and state police forces, and the federal secret police doing their thing. I would expect it will play out with FBI and federal police type agencies trying to keep a handle on things by targeting certain people, and the result will depend on if they contain it or not. And the military not playing a primary fighting role. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#30]
In their defense, the Taliban had an abundance of RPGs which are effective against both. What makes an insurgency work is the decentralized command and control. The Russians faced the Mujahadeen, which was in fact 13 different groups that were well armed by us. Afghanistan is also very difficult terrain and air support is required and challenging when facing surface to air anything. Armour is nice, but access is limited.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:57:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not having firearms is a form of virtue signaling among some. I recall one doomsday prepper show about anti gun preppers in the northeast. They would grow enough food so they could share and didn't need guns. If they researched their Napoleon Chagnon they might realize that doesn't cut it. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:58:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be harder for me to learn to drive a tank than it would be for me to obtain one. Getting ammo for it would be a little bit tougher but I'll bet I could work it out once I had a tank. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:58:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Never wrestle with a pig, you'll get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:59:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think our country is a little different. We actually got our freedom once by violence. I think a second revolution would be a slow start but once going I have no doubt it would accomplish the same thing the first one did. I think many people would be like Mel Gibson's character in The Patriot. They will sit by the sidelines until it touches their lives, and it will, and become the modern day minuteman. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:59:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They WANT them to use tanks and aircraft against us. Right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The fact that some people are comfortable with the thought of their government having the wherewithal to use tanks and aircraft against their citizenry, and in fact are more comfortable with that than they are with the thought of you being armed, tells you all you need to know about them. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:02:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For some others the reverse is true: having dozens and dozens of guns but no ammo and bragging about it is also virtue signaling. Having food but not the means of protecting it is useless. Of course there are those that thinks their gun collection gives them a huge advantage but don't train, etc. In the show I referenced, one of the unarmed hippy dudes figured he could take the bad guy's guns at night if he needed two. It is always great when you get to set the terms of the fantasy violence in your head. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:10:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My crazy ex once told me twenty years ago "I wish you right wing gun nuts >would< all move to Montana. That would make it easier to nuke all of you and get you out of our country" |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:12:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Think of some people that you know, really scary smart people. Now imagine if they decided to become insurgents.
[shudder] They would have to write new books on asymmetric warfare after all of the really scary smart dudes and gals decided to go full on insurgent. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:12:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aircraft and Tanks require tons of fuel, logistics and maintenance plus their crews must exit those platforms. I am sure this is NOT a problem LOL. Notice how the anti-gun people have no idea that people can and will change tactics based on the available tools. This applies in war zones and areas at peace. People intent on killing will get available weapons and develop tactics for those weapons. In war zones, people armed with crowbars will pull up railroad rails, sabotage roads and industry. They don't go directly at manned tanks, they make it difficult for the enemy to use the tanks. People with guns will make it uncomfortable for their enemy to poke their heads outside. People with bombs will bring down buildings on the enemy and their tanks. A small group which successfully curtails or stops the resupply of food, fuel, and spare parts can shut down or limit the use of tanks and airplanes. Likewise, in peace time, murderers will use whatever is at hand. If no guns are available, then they'll use a knife, club, fire, etc. Overall murder rates do not go down with gun bans, the method used may change however. England is a great example, in the 1960s, England's murder rate was in the 0.6-0.8/100,000 range. They pass gun control in 1967, and murder rate went up over 50%. They pass more laws in the late 1990s, and it goes up another 15%. It did dip after they hired more police in the mid 2000s, but it's never been back to the levels of the mid-1960s. You can make the argument that the increased murder rate isn't due to gun control, but there is zero argument that gun control saves lives. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:16:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Remind them that they also have nukes. Lots of nukes.
Remind them that they're 'in-range' for the collateral 'fall out' from the nukes. Was it King Edward that laid waste to the island of Anglesey after the Welsh rebellion and built Beaumaris castle there to remind the Welsh of who was King?? Turning mouthy leftists into peasant slaves is well within the practiced arts of governance. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:18:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Look at how much resources were used to fight the Vietcong. And then look at how many resources they used to guard the Ho Chi Minh trail from MACV-SOG.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:18:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its really not worth the argument or protentional red flag Those people have their minds made up just the same as we do |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:20:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Snip..."gun owners think they can defeat anything with a rifle - how effective is that rifle going to be against tanks and aircraft?" ...snip It's an invalid argument. The leftist/idiot assumes the following for their "logic" to stand: - US .mil has been ordered to assault US civilians in CONUS. - US .mil has agreed to follow those orders. - No "defectors" will occur from the .mil to support the civilians/stop the .mil from carrying out said orders. - No one will have the means/motive/opportunity to strike back at .gov, specifically those who have ordered such things. - That no other actors (China, Russia, etc.) will enter the fray in any way/shape/form - That it will all be over so quickly that the US will remain a superpower during/after attacking our own citizens. - That Asymmetrical warfare does not exist, and that civilians that need to be "removed" will be easily identifiable, easily found, and easily led to the slaughter without any collateral damage - That all the former .mil with hard earned experience will simply stand idly by and let it happen. - That there will be NO repercussions upon .gov for attempting to send tanks & planes against any US civilian in CONUS. To further point out the absurdity of their argument: - .gov backed down over Bundy ranch. No tanks or planes employed. - .gov was fairly ineffective at the Bundy sanctuary standoff. - Last time tanks were used CONUS on civilians was at Waco. Is that what you want to happen again? 'Cuz I'm pretty sure a lot of folks would cause a lot of mayhem for .gov if that happened again. - Tanks, planes, drones, etc. can't be on every street corner/monitoring every civilian, and that's IF you had 100% support from .mil to actually employ them. - As already mentioned, "lone wolfs" can shut down cities. Now imagine only a 1/3rd of gun owners going "lone wolf." Good luck on trying to quickly shut that down without negatively impacting the entire country. - Some of us have no fucks left to give. Shit like their fantasy kicks off, watch how fast every politician screams for a personal protective detail, after the first few catch lead poisoning. TL:DR - Not worth arguing about their fantasy, as that's exactly what it is, a fantasy. JMO & YMMV. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:22:17 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:23:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She must not know about the guy that's pissed off because 1 of 4 of his Form 1 activation of some Carl Gustav's were denied. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And put a bullet in the back of my head, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any number of us given the ability would do so in a heart beat.
Good job |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:25:35 PM EDT
[#47]
This was posted in another forum the other day- sorry I don't remember which one.
Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago: "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:25:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soft? That's pure BS. Name a country who's military is more battle experienced? As for morale affecting our troops in a civil war, I agree to a point. Even Robert E. Lee could not bring himself to raise his sword against his own family and neighbors. However, he had no compunction to kill his once friends and former fellow officers. No matter who you are, choosing sides will come with a price no matter which side you choose. Don't trust the fool who will not count the cost. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:31:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tough to move tanks and planes when the guy fueling it gets shot, or the driver delivering the fuel gets shot, or ... Notice how the anti-gun people have no idea that people can and will change tactics based on the available tools. This applies in war zones and areas at peace. People intent on killing will get available weapons and develop tactics for those weapons. In war zones, people armed with crowbars will pull up railroad rails, sabotage roads and industry. They don't go directly at manned tanks, they make it difficult for the enemy to use the tanks. People with guns will make it uncomfortable for their enemy to poke their heads outside. People with bombs will bring down buildings on the enemy and their tanks. A small group which successfully curtails or stops the resupply of food, fuel, and spare parts can shut down or limit the use of tanks and airplanes. Likewise, in peace time, murderers will use whatever is at hand. If no guns are available, then they'll use a knife, club, fire, etc. Overall murder rates do not go down with gun bans, the method used may change however. England is a great example, in the 1960s, England's murder rate was in the 0.6-0.8/100,000 range. They pass gun control in 1967, and murder rate went up over 50%. They pass more laws in the late 1990s, and it goes up another 15%. It did dip after they hired more police in the mid 2000s, but it's never been back to the levels of the mid-1960s. You can make the argument that the increased murder rate isn't due to gun control, but there is zero argument that gun control saves lives. If a U.S. president did decide to turn the military on Americans in large scale, there would likely be mass desertions-particularly among combat arms personnel, as they tend to be conservative leaning. Sure, the Army would still have a bunch of supply sergeants and personnel clerks, but they aren't going to be doing shit. Of course, any of us who have served knew combat arms folks who leaned left. So, yeah, those people might be willing to stack up on an American's house, or drive an Abrams down Main Street. But, there won't be many of them. So, yeah, let (shudder) President Sanders order the 82nd ABN DIV to enforce Federal gun laws in an American city. He'd better hope the members of the 123rd Mess Kit Repair BN (ABN) are up for the fight and that they are successful in the first couple of days. After the supplies they brought with them run out, they won't be getting any more of anything else. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 2:36:24 PM EDT
[#50]
They gotta piss and get gas sometime.
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