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Posted: 1/21/2015 12:51:28 AM EDT
[#1]
And all of a sudden Europe admits they have a problem with Terrorism.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:02:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing puts bad guys down at close range as well as buckshot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe he just means that he doesn't want French cops saddled with the retarded pump shotgun that has been ubiquitous to US law enforcement for so long, and instead wants modern autoloading rifles. So they use MP5s instead 
I've never heard anyone call them barbaric. They are ridiculously impractical though, which is why they're not usually issued. Nothing puts bad guys down at close range as well as buckshot. It would be hard to find a worse application for the shotgun than crowded urban areas (which terrorist seem to love). |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:14:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Were we not told that there are lots of French cops with guns? So it is in fact true that there were a number of French police who were on scene or fled the scene because....well shit they had no guns.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 2:06:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The WWI story about the Germans isn't really relevant. Most cops haven't heard it, it seems to be better known in the US. Shotguns are simply considered obsolete and impractical for anything but less lethal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe he just means that he doesn't want French cops saddled with the retarded pump shotgun that has been ubiquitous to US law enforcement for so long, and instead wants modern autoloading rifles. So they use MP5s instead
I've never heard anyone call them barbaric. They are ridiculously impractical though, which is why they're not usually issued. The WWI story about the Germans isn't really relevant. Most cops haven't heard it, it seems to be better known in the US. Shotguns are simply considered obsolete and impractical for anything but less lethal. FBI Stats by 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Shotguns 457 442 423 366 356 Lots of people in the US would disagree, but they are dead so, let me do if for them. Shotguns used correctly even with the wrong ammo will kill a guy dead, or at best leave them as practice for surgeons. I know a guy who lost half of several important organs to a shotgun with bird shot. If the shooter had used 00...well either way it screwed him up bad for life, or should I say his vastly dimished life and life span. For people who rarely use a firearm, pass vehicle weapons around like a Vegas whore at a bachelor party, and rarely maintain it, a shotgun is better choice than... nothing. Which apparently is what a lot of them have now. Is the average cop going to make head shots at 50 meters with one, I would like to see them do it now with a rifle and a EO Tech. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 4:23:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hire more paras and less college kids. Its working for us  Rob Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol. Knew this was coming. As soon as i saw the video of the unarmed cop being executed i gave France 6 months before cargo pockets and MRAPS Hire more paras and less college kids. Its working for us Rob  ......we have more these days, doesn't always work that well as many struggle to temper the 'force first' option.......army barmy is not always a good thing in general policing..anti-terror operations, certainly more value |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 4:50:23 AM EDT
[#6]
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Lol. Well, all I can say is, MURICA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." Lol. Well, all I can say is, MURICA. 
Send the Frenchies some blunderbusses! 
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Posted: 1/21/2015 5:18:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote History lostnswv
FBI Stats by 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Shotguns 457 442 423 366 356 Lots of people in the US would disagree, but they are dead so, let me do if for them. Shotguns used correctly even with the wrong ammo will kill a guy dead, or at best leave them as practice for surgeons. I know a guy who lost half of several important organs to a shotgun with bird shot. If the shooter had used 00...well either way it screwed him up bad for life, or should I say his vastly dimished life and life span. For people who rarely use a firearm, pass vehicle weapons around like a Vegas whore at a bachelor party, and rarely maintain it, a shotgun is better choice than... nothing. Which apparently is what a lot of them have now. Is the average cop going to make head shots at 50 meters with one, I would like to see them do it now with a rifle and a EO Tech. Shotguns are awesome; Until you run out of ammo 
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Posted: 1/21/2015 5:26:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shotguns are awesome; Until you run out of ammo Quote HistoryQuoted:
lostnswv
FBI Stats by 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Shotguns 457 442 423 366 356 Lots of people in the US would disagree, but they are dead so, let me do if for them. Shotguns used correctly even with the wrong ammo will kill a guy dead, or at best leave them as practice for surgeons. I know a guy who lost half of several important organs to a shotgun with bird shot. If the shooter had used 00...well either way it screwed him up bad for life, or should I say his vastly dimished life and life span. For people who rarely use a firearm, pass vehicle weapons around like a Vegas whore at a bachelor party, and rarely maintain it, a shotgun is better choice than... nothing. Which apparently is what a lot of them have now. Is the average cop going to make head shots at 50 meters with one, I would like to see them do it now with a rifle and a EO Tech. Shotguns are awesome; Until you run out of ammo Pretty much, every firearm ever made runs out of awesome when the ammo boxes are empty. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 5:27:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Absolutely completely normal. I married a German woman. She wound up blaming me for the Giffords shooting-- as someone who was supportive of the "gun culture." Currently finishing paperwork on becoming my ex wife. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 5:37:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely completely normal. I married a German woman. She wound up blaming me for the Giffords shooting-- as someone who was supportive of the "gun culture." Currently finishing paperwork on becoming my ex wife. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Absolutely completely normal. I married a German woman. She wound up blaming me for the Giffords shooting-- as someone who was supportive of the "gun culture." Currently finishing paperwork on becoming my ex wife. Some Brit girl screamed "OMG YOU CARRY A GUN!?!" when I was in uniform. I informed her that yes, in America police carry firearms, as does probably about 20% of the population around here. She may have pooped a little. 
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Posted: 1/21/2015 5:40:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why dont the Euro countries look to their center and just copy Switzerland. NOBODY fucks with the Swiss cops, or with the people either. Crime rate is really low, and the only shitstirrers are non-swiss. Everybody knows how to handle a gun, and the general pop. are all heavily armed, with full-auto. And just walking around in Switzerland, it just 'feels' safe. Nobody is gonna go all snackbar there, either. Switzerland didn't get invaded in two world wars for a reason. Unless somebody opens a can of sunshine, they will stay safe thru the next mess, too. IMHO YMMV UPDATE: Gun laws are tightening in der Schweiz. Also, the reasonthey weren't invaded by the Nazis was primarily because they collaborated by laundering Nazi money and loot. Secondly, big mountains and choke points. Arms had little to do with it I'm afraid. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 6:57:05 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 1/21/2015 7:07:31 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 1/21/2015 7:14:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meat and bones. Quote History"The Lovecraftian nightmare of the dead black abyss that is the shotguns gothic maw, surpassed only by the paralyzing unearthly sounds of its racking slide prophesying doom beyond compare." #justshotgunthings
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Posted: 1/21/2015 7:30:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Were we not told that there are lots of French cops with guns? So it is in fact true that there were a number of French police who were on scene or fled the scene because....well shit they had no guns. The officers retreated to cover. It is called a tactical withdrawl. Even the military preaches that.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 7:33:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryHitlerverse Portal? Sweet! Maybe in Hitlerverse it is ARs that are in trashcans.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 7:51:35 AM EDT
[#17]
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AT-4s normally make real small holes Thats true. Use more than one. It will eventually work. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 8:16:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Just mentioned on GMA. France to hire 3,000 Counter-Terrorist Officers and said they will better arms their cops across the board.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 8:43:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The WWI story about the Germans isn't really relevant. Most cops haven't heard it, it seems to be better known in the US. Shotguns are simply considered obsolete and impractical for anything but less lethal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe he just means that he doesn't want French cops saddled with the retarded pump shotgun that has been ubiquitous to US law enforcement for so long, and instead wants modern autoloading rifles. So they use MP5s instead
I've never heard anyone call them barbaric. They are ridiculously impractical though, which is why they're not usually issued. The WWI story about the Germans isn't really relevant. Most cops haven't heard it, it seems to be better known in the US. Shotguns are simply considered obsolete and impractical for anything but less lethal. That's only because you guys havent discovered the joys of shooting Federal's Flite Control 00 Buck. Bead sight, cylinder bore barrel, and I can easily keep all 9 pellets in between the shoulders of a standard B29 target at 50 yards. Seriously. Throw some 1 oz slugs in the gun and we can reach out 100 yards and touch someone easily. I used to not like the shotgun until the Flite Control Ammo.....It has literally doubled the effective range of 00 buck and it is downright nasty at ranges less than 7 yards. Can you guys get that over there? There's got to be a way I could send you a box or two of it to try.... |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:01:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were we not told that there are lots of French cops with guns? So it is in fact true that there were a number of French police who were on scene or fled the scene because....well shit they had no guns. same as the Terrorist attack in India years ago. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:24:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: same as the Terrorist attack in India years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Were we not told that there are lots of French cops with guns? So it is in fact true that there were a number of French police who were on scene or fled the scene because....well shit they had no guns. same as the Terrorist attack in India years ago. Numerous incidents like that have occurred in the USA in which officers were ill informed and took cover until backup could arrive. Cops are Soldiers like understand that there is a difference between cover and concealment along with fighting smart. Charging head long into a machine gun nest is stupid. Charging head long into two terrorists armed with rifles while you only have a pistol is stupid. They didn't quit and left, the regrouped and pressed on. If they didn't, then the terrorists would be alive today and giving speeches in Iraq or Syria. My they rest in peace and know that they are avenged.  Officer Clarissa Jean-Philippe She was the other officer killed by the terror group. She was a newly minted officer, only 15 days on the job. She originally lived in the French Overseas Territory of Martinique.  Officer Ahmed Merabet Eight years on the force and just passed his promotional exam to make Detective.  Franck Brinsolaro  Officers killed in the line of duty: Franck Brinsolaro Service de la Protection - Police Nationale (Armed - Protective Detail Operations) Ahmed Merabet Prefecture de police de Paris - Police Nationale (Armed - Bicycle Patrol) Clarissa Jean-Philippe CFTC Police Municipal (Unarmed - Municipal Patrol)   |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:30:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's only because you guys havent discovered the joys of shooting Federal's Flite Control 00 Buck. Bead sight, cylinder bore barrel, and I can easily keep all 9 pellets in between the shoulders of a standard B29 target at 50 yards. Seriously. Throw some 1 oz slugs in the gun and we can reach out 100 yards and touch someone easily. I used to not like the shotgun until the Flite Control Ammo.....It has literally doubled the effective range of 00 buck and it is downright nasty at ranges less than 7 yards. Can you guys get that over there? There's got to be a way I could send you a box or two of it to try.... Yeah, we can get it, but it's still not as useful for the police as a SMG or carbine. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:36:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like she's "speshul". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Sounds like she's "speshul". My cousin married a woman born and raised in Germany, and her reaction is very similar. She even won't "let him" have a gun. She has a strong dislike and fear of guns. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:37:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My cousin married a woman born and raised in Germany, and her reaction is very similar. She even won't "let him" have a gun. She has a strong dislike and fear of guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Sounds like she's "speshul". My cousin married a woman born and raised in Germany, and her reaction is very similar. She even won't "let him" have a gun. She has a strong dislike and fear of guns. Sounds like a sheltered urbanite. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:37:58 AM EDT
[#25]
St Louis City PD recently got rid of their PCC's.
I'll confess to having ALOT more familiarity with the M16/AR15 platform than the 870, I wouldnt be terrified if all I had was the 870 to work with. I'll admit I wouldnt charge a machine gun nest by myself with an 870, but then again, I wouldnt do it with an M16 either. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:54:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
St Louis City PD recently got rid of their PCC's. I'll confess to having ALOT more familiarity with the M16/AR15 platform than the 870, I wouldnt be terrified if all I had was the 870 to work with. I'll admit I wouldnt charge a machine gun nest by myself with an 870, but then again, I wouldnt do it with an M16 either. Id much prefer a Semi Rifle over a Shotgun...Don't get me wrong, Shotguns have their uses, and they really CAN be precision tools..IF you do enough shooting to be supremely confident with them.. I freely admit that Im not. Been there done that, been in a situation where ALL i had was a 590 with buckshot, and was over 40 yards away from an armed BG with one of ours next to him..if things had gone bad, it could have gone REAL bad....the reason given for why we couldnt have Patrol Rifles (Even officer-owned, no cost to the Dept) was that they wouldnt pay for the extra 2 training days mandated for Rifle Quals per year. 
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:57:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps they should consider allowing their citizens to arm and protect themselves This |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:57:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." Quote HistoryQuoted:
"We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 9:59:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Pretty much Spot On....... Many Euro Police Agencies also dont allow off-duty carry either, your weapon is secured at work when you clock off |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:00:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty much Spot On....... Many Euro Police Agencies also dont allow off-duty carry either, your weapon is secured at work when you clock off Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: "We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Pretty much Spot On....... Many Euro Police Agencies also dont allow off-duty carry either, your weapon is secured at work when you clock off |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:02:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. That's not what they're saying. They recognize the need for long arms, but don't necessarily want the same weapons that you guys use, like shotguns. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:02:34 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much Spot On....... Many Euro Police Agencies also dont allow off-duty carry either, your weapon is secured at work when you clock off Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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"We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Pretty much Spot On....... Many Euro Police Agencies also dont allow off-duty carry either, your weapon is secured at work when you clock off According to the Canadians I talked to they can't take home their Beretta's either
ETA: I leave my duty gun at work too, but only because I have plenty of my own to use off duty. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:07:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the Canadians I talked to they can't take home their Beretta's either Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Pretty much Spot On....... Many Euro Police Agencies also dont allow off-duty carry either, your weapon is secured at work when you clock off According to the Canadians I talked to they can't take home their Beretta's either Same with Latin America too. Oh, what a shocker! The United States of America is the Odd Man Out.... our history, policies, laws, culture, etc are different from the majority of the world. The fact that our cops can carry off duty is odd to most nations. The fact that our citizens can carry is blood vessel busting to most nations.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:15:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not what they're saying. They recognize the need for long arms, but don't necessarily want the same weapons that you guys use, like shotguns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. That's not what they're saying. They recognize the need for long arms, but don't necessarily want the same weapons that you guys use, like shotguns. I understand that they don't like shotguns, I was just describing what we have- I should have just said "long arms" instead. I agree with the Euro mindset though- I wouldn't use a shotgun either. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:44:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: American weapons can be so much scarier than French weapons....we don't want scary American "dindu" killing weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." American weapons can be so much scarier than French weapons....we don't want scary American "dindu" killing weapons. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:31:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For people who rarely use a firearm, a shotgun is better choice than... nothing. Which apparently is what a lot of them have now. Is the average cop going to make head shots at 50 meters with one, I would like to see them do it now with a rifle and a EO Tech. Fail. Well, not complete fail, a shotgun is indeed better than nothing. But it's a terrible choice for the "cops who rarely use a firearm". The shotgun is easily the toughest small arm with which to achieve and maintain combat proficiency. You can train any cop with decent eyesight and full use of his/her hands to make that 50m head shot with a dot sighted AR in a matter of hours. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:36:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. The majority of European LE is armed just like American LE. A Glock/Eig/HK/Walther/Beretta/S&W/FN made semiauto handgun in 9mm. One to two spare magazines, a pair of cuffs, spray/baton/taser, and a radio.     Swedish Police    Belgian Police   Norwegian Police   Dutch (Netherlands) Police   French Police   German Police   Italian Police    Swiss Police    Austrian Police |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:38:22 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My cousin married a woman born and raised in Germany, and her reaction is very similar. She even won't "let him" have a gun. She has a strong dislike and fear of guns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Sounds like she's "speshul". My cousin married a woman born and raised in Germany, and her reaction is very similar. She even won't "let him" have a gun. She has a strong dislike and fear of guns. Would have been a nonstarter for me. Told my wife very early on that I had two dealbreakers, and not being ok with me owning guns was one of them.
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:44:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some Brit girl screamed "OMG YOU CARRY A GUN!?!" when I was in uniform. I informed her that yes, in America police carry firearms, as does probably about 20% of the population around here. She may have pooped a little. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Absolutely completely normal. I married a German woman. She wound up blaming me for the Giffords shooting-- as someone who was supportive of the "gun culture." Currently finishing paperwork on becoming my ex wife. Some Brit girl screamed "OMG YOU CARRY A GUN!?!" when I was in uniform. I informed her that yes, in America police carry firearms, as does probably about 20% of the population around here. She may have pooped a little. In 13 years of openly carrying a sidearm, and frequently a carbine / shotgun as a uniformed officer in the UK the only comments I received were mild curiosity, except from those trying to avoid me..  |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:46:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps they should consider allowing their citizens to arm and protect themselves It's not like it's hard to get firearms from former eastern bloc countries, even in the UK. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously delusional. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:52:41 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In 13 years of openly carrying a sidearm, and frequently a carbine / shotgun as a uniformed officer in the UK the only comments I received were mild curiosity, except from those trying to avoid me.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My sister in law is german, she abotu had a heart attack when i took my brother to the range. she actually had a mild panic attack when i put the guns in my car to go home. Absolutely completely normal. I married a German woman. She wound up blaming me for the Giffords shooting-- as someone who was supportive of the "gun culture." Currently finishing paperwork on becoming my ex wife. Some Brit girl screamed "OMG YOU CARRY A GUN!?!" when I was in uniform. I informed her that yes, in America police carry firearms, as does probably about 20% of the population around here. She may have pooped a little. In 13 years of openly carrying a sidearm, and frequently a carbine / shotgun as a uniformed officer in the UK the only comments I received were mild curiosity, except from those trying to avoid me.. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:57:55 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "We don't want necessarily the arms that American police have. We need weapons that can respond," said Philippe Capon of French police union UNSA. "We need to arm our cops like Americans, but don't want to because that's what the Americans do." No kidding, that's kind of annoying. So, they've recognized a need for police to be armed with a solid pistol and multiple magazines and a shogun or semi-auto in every patrol car but by doing it they'd be admitting that we have been right about how we arm cops? And pride says don't act like the armed Americans? Alrighty then. Not so much anymore. No UK Gov. or Police Chief wants to go down in history as being the one that routinely armed all officers. Also, just in the U.K., can you imagine the cost of equipping, training, and maintaining officers in a skillset that many of them don't want or will be unsuited to, that has a 50% or more failure rate amongst those that actually want to do it? Far easier to pretend you are doing something, and wait for the immediate problem to go away or become someone else's responsibility. So some people could get killed, still lots cheaper..... |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 12:14:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FBI Stats by 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Shotguns 457 442 423 366 356 Lots of people in the US would disagree, but they are dead so, let me do if for them. Shotguns used correctly even with the wrong ammo will kill a guy dead, or at best leave them as practice for surgeons. I know a guy who lost half of several important organs to a shotgun with bird shot. If the shooter had used 00...well either way it screwed him up bad for life, or should I say his vastly dimished life and life span. For people who rarely use a firearm, pass vehicle weapons around like a Vegas whore at a bachelor party, and rarely maintain it, a shotgun is better choice than... nothing. Which apparently is what a lot of them have now. Is the average cop going to make head shots at 50 meters with one, I would like to see them do it now with a rifle and a EO Tech. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The WWI story about the Germans isn't really relevant. Most cops haven't heard it, it seems to be better known in the US. Shotguns are simply considered obsolete and impractical for anything but less lethal. FBI Stats by 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Shotguns 457 442 423 366 356 Lots of people in the US would disagree, but they are dead so, let me do if for them. Shotguns used correctly even with the wrong ammo will kill a guy dead, or at best leave them as practice for surgeons. I know a guy who lost half of several important organs to a shotgun with bird shot. If the shooter had used 00...well either way it screwed him up bad for life, or should I say his vastly dimished life and life span. For people who rarely use a firearm, pass vehicle weapons around like a Vegas whore at a bachelor party, and rarely maintain it, a shotgun is better choice than... nothing. Which apparently is what a lot of them have now. Is the average cop going to make head shots at 50 meters with one, I would like to see them do it now with a rifle and a EO Tech. Swede is not saying shotguns are not lethal in Europe. He is saying they relegate shotguns to use as launchers for less lethal munitions. Europeans choose SMGs and Assault Rifles as the preferred medicine for aspiring rappers. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:18:07 PM EDT
[#45]
This thread is confusing; am I supposed to be for or against the militarization of police?
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:25:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread is confusing; am I supposed to be for or against the militarization of police? As far as gear is concerned, all for it. Police malfeasance is a software, not a hardware problem. Your rights can be shat upon just as easily with a stout baton as an MRAP. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:31:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we to understand that the average ARFCOMMER is more heavily armed than Euro police? Who knew?! Nope, the average ARFcommer lost their guns in a boating accident, or they think guns are icky. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 1:31:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as gear is concerned, all for it. Police malfeasance is a software, not a hardware problem. Your rights can be shat upon just as easily with a stout baton as an MRAP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This thread is confusing; am I supposed to be for or against the militarization of police? As far as gear is concerned, all for it. Police malfeasance is a software, not a hardware problem. Your rights can be shat upon just as easily with a stout baton as an MRAP. That's crazy talk. Everyone knows that having a gun makes everyone more violent. Why, if the cops at UC Davis would have had guns, all those dirty hippies peaceful culture warriors would have been shot! What we really need to do is ban terrorists from having guns (while totally respecting their culture and rights). That way, they'll give up on shooting people and use bombs reasoned dialog to secure more educational and economic opportunities for their communities! |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 4:32:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is confusing; am I supposed to be for or against the militarization of police? You accept that Police need appropriate equipment to counter the threat, including if that threat is military grade weaponry. You are against militarisation of the Police. You approve of increasing numbers of ex-military personnel becoming Police Officers. You are against militarisation of the Police. You accept that in some situations, Police may need to use military based tactics. You are against militarisation of the Police. You accept that where the Police and military work together on joint domestic operations it makes sense to have compatible weapons and tactics. You are against militarisation of the Police. You accept that a lot of military based equipment, LBE, armour, even some vehicles cam have LE applications. You are against militarisation of the Police. Hope that helps...
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Posted: 1/21/2015 8:33:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Officers at the Charlie Hebdo shooting were armed. The Female officer was unarmed and was executed the next day. The officers retreated to cover. It is called a tactical withdrawl. Even the military preaches that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Were we not told that there are lots of French cops with guns? So it is in fact true that there were a number of French police who were on scene or fled the scene because....well shit they had no guns. The officers retreated to cover. It is called a tactical withdrawl. Even the military preaches that. I am being sarcastic about the completely shit coverage of an event, and more than a few posts here. Unarmed, cops who thought that would be smart.
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