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http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070810183848/darth/images/7/76/Darth_Vader.jpg
http://supportyourlocalgunfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/q-star-trek.jpg



Q, well he just kind of thought he was Starfleet.....

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Apparently the 40k fans do not agree, because I created a thread on just that issue and they all shot it down saying the imperium would be slaughtered without much of a fuss.

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Since when was Q part of starfleet and when were the jedi part of the empire?

Fucking trekkies keep throwing in borg and Q and other ridiculous as though they would ally with the federation. You don't see the star wars people here advocating anything but the empire, because that is the premise of the thread Empire vs Starfleet.

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Inverse tachyon beam pulse through the main deflector does...whatever it needs to (short-circuits a SSD, for example).

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According to star wars canon hierarchy, because I have published engineering papers; this is now canon.

I just pulled it out of my ass and onscreen performance doesnt even remotely match it. But thats okay, this is how all the EU works.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/oipaloi/itsnowstarwarscanon_zps0c96fad6.jpg

Star Wars obviously wins with firepower like this.

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And the Star Trek torpedoes blow up like a czar bomb in the shows?

If Star Trek weapons were any good they wouldn't constant need to reverse polarity of the tachyon particle beam deflector array enigma singularity plasma phaser beam by increasing maximum power to the subspace antimatter  gravitational warp shield conduit every fucking time they fight anything.

I've been watching a lot of Star Trek lately on Netflix

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And the Star Trek torpedoes blow up like a czar bomb in the shows?

If Star Trek weapons were any good they wouldn't constant need to reverse polarity of the tachyon particle beam deflector array enigma singularity plasma phaser beam by increasing maximum power to the subspace antimatter  gravitational warp shield conduit every fucking time they fight anything.

I've been watching a lot of Star Trek lately on Netflix

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I wasnt commenting on Trek's tech. As I've already stared in this thread I think War would handily win. More of a commentary on all the horseshit garbage wars fans pull from the extended universe.

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I wasnt commenting on Trek's tech. As I've already stared in this thread I think War would handily win. More of a commentary on all the horseshit garbage wars fans pull from the extended universe.

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I am still not seeing any arguments for how Imperial ships can possibly cope with the fact that Trek ships are capable of combat at FTL speeds. Without covering that, I can't see how the Empire would have any chance. Even if their weapons were ten times as awesome as the SW advocates suggest, capable of totally blasting the Enterprise into dust, those weapons would never HIT the Enterprise. They aren't fast enough, even if you give the Empire the ability to somehow target FTL enemies. (Which they wouldn't have, since they clearly don't even know FTL combat is even possible or they would damned sure be making use of it.)
...

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Seriously, man, you're either not understanding my argument, or you're fucking with me. This is not complicated. Imperial fleet drops out of hyperspace to bombard Earth and are attacked by nearby Federation ships. The Federation ships and weapons move FTL in normal space. The Emperials do not. The Emperials are toast. They cannot evade the fire, they cannot absorb it on a long term basis, and they cannot even hit the Federation ships. Their weapons are simply not fast enough.

Yes, it is dumb. It should not be possible, because the crew of the enterprise would have to be sped up to react at FTL speed in order to make decisions on how to behave, but that's the point. Probably, somewhere, they explain it by claiming there is a  time distortion field. They like handwaving time stuff. The proposed tech in Trek is magic.

Dude, honestly, your comments on the transporter are just not sensible. I have already explained above why the trek ships are simply invulnerable to incoming fire from sublight weapons. They will never be hit. They are not worried about dropping their shields. They are not worried about killing the personnel, so much as simply not having them even there. They transport off helmsmen, damage control, officers, etc. Have you ever actually been onboard a ship? If you could literally picks and choose ten crew to make disappear, the ship would be dead in the water or at least steaming out of control in short order.

Transporters are more than capable of serving up ounce after ounce of antimatter. That's all it takes, really. E=mc^2 and all that.

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Let's accept your premise for a moment that ST ships aren't able to be hit by sublight weapons for a moment (I disagree with this position but for the purpose of this question I'll leave it out).  And if they aren't worried about being hit they drop their shields, how are they going to be able to transport through the Star Destroyer's shields that they just don't have the power to drop?

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http://www.stuffistumbledupon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Star-wars-meme-grumpy-cat-meme-lol-lulz-geek-darth-vadar-vader_thumb.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/starwars-exodus/images/f/f6/14570_star_wars_battle.jpg

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Seriously, man, you're either not understanding my argument, or you're fucking with me. This is not complicated. Imperial fleet drops out of hyperspace to bombard Earth and are attacked by nearby Federation ships. The Federation ships and weapons move FTL in normal space. The Emperials do not. The Emperials are toast. They cannot evade the fire, they cannot absorb it on a long term basis, and they cannot even hit the Federation ships. Their weapons are simply not fast enough.

Yes, it is dumb. It should not be possible, because the crew of the enterprise would have to be sped up to react at FTL speed in order to make decisions on how to behave, but that's the point. Probably, somewhere, they explain it by claiming there is a  time distortion field. They like handwaving time stuff. The proposed tech in Trek is magic.

Dude, honestly, your comments on the transporter are just not sensible. I have already explained above why the trek ships are simply invulnerable to incoming fire from sublight weapons. They will never be hit. They are not worried about dropping their shields. They are not worried about killing the personnel, so much as simply not having them even there. They transport off helmsmen, damage control, officers, etc. Have you ever actually been onboard a ship? If you could literally picks and choose ten crew to make disappear, the ship would be dead in the water or at least steaming out of control in short order.

Transporters are more than capable of serving up ounce after ounce of antimatter. That's all it takes, really. E=mc^2 and all that.

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http://schmoesknow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/star-wars-vs-star-trek.jpeg



Need I say more?

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Not that I am aware of.  Did he have unprotected sex at all?

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You are trying to insinuate  that a feddy ship just flies around in warp attacking ships that are just crusing around in sub light speed. I have watched all the series and movies and that has never happened. Two ships engaging while at warp yes, feddy ship warping by a klingon outpost and firing without dropping out of warp and hitting that outpost....neva happened. Stick to cannon.

Feddy ships are not beaming anyone out of anything unless their shields are down....they can not use transporters with their shields up...period. Shields down makes them vulernable.....and they are not going to use transporters while in warp....your comments are the non-sensible ones.


Also the gigantic crews of empiral capital ships make them less vulnerable to CNC attacks. All of their weapon systems are operated by independent gunners.

This is the crew compliment of an ISD.
Officers (9,235)
Infantry (9,700)
Enlisted (27,850)
   Gunners (275)

The ships are designed to withstand heavy amounts of battle damage and still be operational. Unlike a feddy ship, an ISD is not dead in the water by losing its bridge crew.

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Let's accept your premise for a moment that ST ships aren't able to be hit by sublight weapons for a moment (I disagree with this position but for the purpose of this question I'll leave it out).  And if they aren't worried about being hit they drop their shields, how are they going to be able to transport through the Star Destroyer's shields that they just don't have the power to drop?

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I have seen nothing in the movies indicating that the Star Destroyers have magic level invulnerability like some folks here are saying. We have seen them go boom from crashing into each other, and we have seen them take damage from fighters hitting them, or asteroids. I'm not really seeing the claim that they would stand up to Fed weapons at all, and certainly not on a prolonged basis. And it seems obvious that if Fed ships can track and accurately fire on enemy ships at warp speed, they would be able to focus fire fairly easily on the same spot for sublight ships. The obvious tactic would be to evade incoming fire at warp speeds, focus on weak spots until they punched a hole, and strategically lower  shields to use transporters for mopping up

And yet all battles in star trek seemingly happen at impulse at very close ranges......huh.  Here is the problem, when your firing a weapon at warp the two ships are going at a variable speed. Firing a torpedo at warp is like throwing a javelin from a moving vehicle going 200 mph and expecting to hit a target that is not moving....possible sure, but the odds of doing it are so ridiculously low at to be a complete waste of energy. It has never been done before so it is not cannon,  therefore it should not be apart of this discussion. Unless you want me to start bringing up all the ridiculous stuff that force users can potentially do like battle meditation, and force storms.




I don't really see the transporters as necessary, so much as convenient for them to deliver very precise payloads within the skin of the ship. I think the Fed ships could just simply blast away from range if they wanted, kite the Imperials, and wolfpack them. Think Spanish armada.


we already established that transporters are not going to be effective for a number of obvious reasons


I do like your other suggestion of a way for the Empire to win, though, by avoiding direct combat and attacking infrastructure. Drop out of hyperspace, blast a starbase, and fade. I still have a lot of skepticism about the claims of the power levels on Imperial weapons versus shields designed to stand up against FTL weapons, but if we accept it, it's a nice play.

I am not going to argue mathematical power levels because I think it is all a bunch of unsubstantiated fluff, nor am I including all those crazy plot devises used in both series to defeat seemingly invincible enemies.




It has problems, though, in that it still involves the Empire committing tons of resources, and what some here claim is a huge advantage for the Empire, it's relative size, would work against it. Tens of thousands of conquered worlds waiting for their chance, and an active and aggressive rebellion the Empire is trying to suppress, makes it hard for them to just pull all of their forces away to engage the Federation.

You seem to be underestimating the sheer amount of resources available. A war with the federation would not even require 1/10th of their total navy power, it in no way is leaving them vulnerable on their home front. One ISD is enough to subjugate an entire star system (hence the name), and each sector has a ton of ships at its disposal. Unlike rebel propaganda, the empire actually does a very good job at running such a huge collection of planets, much better then the fractured and very corrupt republic that it replaced. If you think all of those under its control are just yearning to be liberated then you are misinformed.

I just want to emphasize once again the huge logistical differences between the empire and starfleet that you seem to be ignoring.

Empire - 1.5 million members and conquered planets vs Federation - 1000 planets

Quantity has a quality of its own. It doesn't matter if federation ships are qualitatively better, the sheer tital wave of forces is more then the entire alpha quandrant combined could handle. Even after the battle of yavin when the empire fractured into dozens of feuding warlords, the size even the smallest warlord's fleet would make starfleet look like a cute in comparison. That is why this whole comparison is simple lopsided.   Maybe if the discussion was Rebel Alliance vs Starfleet then you would be operating on a level playing field.


By the same respect the Romulans and klingons may just see the empire's assault as an opportunity to start seizing federation territory for themselves.




They have their own supply lines to protect. At the risk of expanding too far beyond the 'Empire versus Federation', it has to be pointed out that the Empire's power base is held together through armed might, whereas the Federation is heavily invested in diplomacy.


In an actual long term war, the Federation would exploit that. Admittedly, the Fed has enemies too, but it's much more a cold war scenario, versus the constant, brutal domination the Empire wages on its subject worlds. The Federation's enemies would tend to be cagey and wait around, hoping the Feds and Imps beat hell out of each other so they could mop up


Where did you get the idea that the empire only rules through subjugation? Conquered territory that may be the case, but the vast bulk of the empire was established by the republic over tens of thousands of years, the empire formed from that governing system and most of the populations under their control favor the empire over the ineffective republic....who do you think took the blame for the clone war? The empire represents stability, prosperity (more jobs for sentient, less jobs for droids), and safety. Which at the end of the day is what most people care about.

The galactic empire is based on the Roman empire style of rule. Seems to me that all those nations that Rome conquered were happy to be apart of the empire and prospered greatly from it. Join us and get the protection and trade or fight us and get destroy and all your lands salted.....most nations chose wisely and defended the roman empire to the bitter end. Even the barbarians who sacked the city just wanted to be roman citizens.




If the Empire could prolong it for a while, the Feds might lose heart. They are not ruthless enough to pull the same tactic, and they would be very troubled by the death tolls. It's an interesting scenario to consider.

Again...did you see that size comparison I posted. One Imperial star destroy is bigger then any vessel that the federation has ever fielded....by a sizable degree, and they have tens of thousands of them. With each capital ship comes an armada of support ships and smaller combat vessels.

Notice how large that Super Star destroyer is compared to the largest thing the federation has ever build, their main space station. The SSD executor was not a one off build, the empire started mass producing them after the battle of yavin. SSD makes babylon 5 look tiny   Now imagine how many resources it takes to build just one SSD, and realize that a SSD is like an ant next to the death star....and they didn't just build one death star....they built 2 and the 2nd one was considerably bigger then the first. The logistical capabilities to build 2 death stars should tell you right off the bat that star fleet has no chance. The best thing starfleet could do would be to remain unknown to the empire and hope that their are no feasible hyperspace routes to their territory.

This chart (which presumably does not include the activities of their allies, the Dominion) indicates that the Cardassian Union produces approximately 80 capital ships per year, 350 fighters, and 450 "heavy penetrators", which are apparently long-range strategic smart missiles. We know that Galor-class warships are approximately 370 metres in length (ref. DS9 TM), so we can generate a rough volume comparison with respect to a Star Destroyer, by simply cubing the length ratio of 1600/370. We can easily calculate that a Star Destroyer is roughly the size of 80 Galor-class warships using this method, which should be accurate to within a reasonable degree of error.

Therefore, the Cardassian Union's entire yearly capital ship production is equivalent to a single Star Destroyer! This is an excellent example of the laughable industrial capacity of the Cardassian Union. We can compare the Klingon Empire and the Cardassians to see that their fleet sizes are similar. If a typical Cardassian starship has a service life of 20 years like a Federation GCS (ref TM) before it must be either retired or put through a massive refit, then an annual production of 80 capital ships would mean that their average fleet size is roughly 1600 ships, assuming that all ships last for their entire service lifetimes without being destroyed in battle. Their annual production of 350 fighters would mean that they can field roughly 7000 fighters. This is completely consistent with the estimated size of the Klingon fleet, at 1000-2000 ships (based on Way of the Warrior). Since the Klingon Empire and Federation both have superior warships to the Cardassian Union, they would each easily overpower the Cardassians even with numerical parity. If either the Klingon Empire or Federation had a much larger number of ships than the 1600 ships available to the Cardassian Union, then they would have been able to overrun the Cardassians almost effortlessly, and without bothering to commit a significant portion of their fleet. Certainly, the Klingons would not have had to commit more than a third of their entire military to their attack on the Cardassian Union if this were the case.

Since we know that the Klingons had to commit more than one full third of their military to their attack on the Cardassian Union even with the advantage of complete surprise, and since we know that their advances were greatly slowed once the Cardassian military mobilized against them, we can conclude that the Klingon military is probably no more than three times the size of the Cardassian military. If the Klingons have military forces which are less than three times as powerful as the Cardassian Union's military forces, then we can conclude that they probably produce roughly 240 capital ships per year. This figure is based on an assumption which severely exaggerates Klingon fleet size: the assumption that Klingon and Cardassian ships are tactically equal. A more realistic assessment would account for the large tactical advantage conferred by the Klingons' superior technology (particularly the effect of their cloaking technology), which would reduce the ship-count required for them to overwhelm the Cardassians.

However, if we use this estimate in spite of the generous assumption, then we can conclude that the Klingons' average fleet size is no more than 5,000 ships. The Federation probably has a smaller fleet than this, because the average Federation starship is larger and more powerful than the average Klingon starship. Furthermore, in an alternate timeline where the Klingon Empire and the Federation went to war, the Klingons were decisively winning the war (ref. Yesterday's Enterprise). Therefore, the Federation's fleet is probably a few thousand capital ships, as previously stated.

The DS9 TM also describes the Cardassian Union's shipbuilding facilities:

   "Starfleet Intelligence believes that the current Cardassian industrial base includes Cardassia Prime ... and at least fifteen other neighboring worlds supporting major scientific and fabrication facilities. One hundred fifty three additional orbital and deep interstellar facilities are thought to make up the bulk of their off-world assets. When applying all of their available resources, the Cardassian Union is capable of producing, deploying, and supporting a large armed fleet and accompanying combat troops on a continuing basis."

This allows us to determine that the Cardassian Union has a total of less than 170 major systems and facilities, which fits very closely with Picard's statement that the Federation has 150 major systems. It also allows us to determine that the Cardassian fleet, at 1600 ships, is considered a "large" fleet by Starfleet Intelligence. It should be noted that 1600 Galor-class capital ships would be equivalent in size to roughly 20 Star Destroyers.

Conclusion

The Federation is a very small organization, which is capable of controlling only a small portion of one quadrant of their galaxy. Their industrial capacity is proportionate to this small scale. Other Star Trek organizations such as the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Cardassians, Borg, Kazons, etc. are also similarly limited.

Of the major established organizations near Federation space, the Borg is by far the most prolific organization, even though it is limited to only a few thousand star systems. The military-industrial might of the Star Wars Galactic Empire dwarfs all of these organizations combined.

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The Klingons and Romulans would try to start taking Federation territory only to be swatted by the Empire.

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Pretty much. I think the rest of the alpha quadrant would quickly join the empire after they saw the mighty federation get so easily curb stomped. Just seeing one Super star destroy drop out of hyperspace would be enough for most star trek organizations to realize how small and weak they are in comparison to an galaxy spanning empire that can build a ship so large and have such a huge crew compliment.



I would really like to see an ISD invade the klingon homeworld. All those warriors charging an AT-AT

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Star Wars. Chewbacca would tear everyone a new asshole.

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Pretty much. I think the rest of the alpha quadrant would quickly join the empire after they saw the mighty federation get so easily curb stomped. Just seeing one Super star destroy drop out of hyperspace would be enough for most star trek organizations to realize how small and weak they are in comparison to an galaxy spanning empire that can build a ship so large and have such a huge crew compliment.



I would really like to see an ISD invade the klingon homeworld. All those warriors charging an AT-AT

http://www.starwarshelmets.com/2008/atat_screen03a.jpg

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http://schmoesknow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/star-wars-vs-star-trek.jpeg

Need I say more?

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Good lord. The carnage from the heavy cannon.

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I would pay money to see chewbacca vs worf.

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The same AT-ATs that were barely able to vaporize basketball sized divets in snow? Or maybe use the AT-STs that couldn't even blast through a 12in tree trunk?

One Abrams would have kicked the ever living snot out of the entire Hoth landing party.

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They seemed pretty good at shooting down snowspeeders and blowing up planetary shield generators.  

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Yep. Aircraft and power generators are known for their resilience. Kind of like gas stations are also known for being safe places to start a camp fire.

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You are trying to insinuate  that a feddy ship just flies around in warp attacking ships that are just crusing around in sub light speed. I have watched all the series and movies and that has never happened. Two ships engaging while at warp yes, feddy ship warping by a klingon outpost and firing without dropping out of warp and hitting that outpost....neva happened. Stick to cannon.

Feddy ships are not beaming anyone out of anything unless their shields are down....they can not use transporters with their shields up...period. Shields down makes them vulernable.....and they are not going to use transporters while in warp....your comments are the non-sensible ones.


Also the gigantic crews of empiral capital ships make them less vulnerable to CNC attacks. All of their weapon systems are operated by independent gunners.

This is the crew compliment of an ISD.
Officers (9,235)
Infantry (9,700)
Enlisted (27,850)
   Gunners (275)

The ships are designed to withstand heavy amounts of battle damage and still be operational. Unlike a feddy ship, an ISD is not dead in the water by losing its bridge crew.

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I am not trying to be a jerk, but I really do not understand what you are saying here. You honestly don't think that a faster and more maneuverable vessel would use its agility to its advantage in a fight? What captain would not approach at high speed, use erratic maneuvering, launch a brace, and veer off, especially if he knew his enemy was slower, and had slow but very powerful weapons?

Conversely, the Empire advocates have really been excessive in their claims of uberiority, far beyond canon. The most powerful weapon the Empire had at its command was the Death Star. All of this other handwaved stuff is on par with Trekkies claiming they read a Kirk/Spock fanfic where the Federation has a magic button that will make all of their enemies throw down their weapons, drop their drawers in submission, and beg to join Starfleet.

Here's canon:

Cassio Tagge: And until this battle station is fully operational, we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. They're more dangerous than you realize!

Conan Antonio Motti: Dangerous to your starfleet, Commander, not to this battle station.

Tagge: The Rebellion will continue to gain a support in the Imperial Senate, until...

Wilhuff Tarkin: [walking in with Darth Vader] The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

Tagge: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Tagge: And what of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this station, it is possible — however unlikely — that they might find a weakness and exploit it.

Vader: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands.

Motti: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe! I suggest we use it.

Vader: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Motti: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. [Vader walks toward Motti, then slowly raises his hand] Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fort- [grasps his throat as if he is being choked]

Vader: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Tarkin: Enough of this. Vader, release him!

Vader: As you wish. [drops his hand and Motti's head hits the table as he regains his breath]

Tarkin: This bickering is pointless. Lord Vader will provide us with the location of the Rebel fortress by the time this station is operational. We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke.


The Imperials clearly consider the Death Star to be the most potent weapon in their arsenal, so far beyond anything else they have that nothing is even worth talking about. Tarkin underscores this later by destroying Alderaan, because he wants to demonstrate the power of the Death Star, and Dantooine is too remote to make an impressive target. He then personally commands the Death Star to approach and destroy the Rebel Base. He does not send star destroyers or any of these other fanfic Imperial Super Weapons which supposedly outclass the Death Star. And the reason is because the Death Star IS the ultimate Imperial weapon.

I see nothing in any of the movies that suggests the Imperial fleet has the capabilities so many have put forth. They can move very fast in hyperspace, but that's all I see. Show us something from the movies or other official material that backs up these claims about the power of their weapons and the invulnerability of their ships. From what I recall of the movies, star destroyers got smeared from collisions with asteroids, and yet you claim they have shields that would absorb the energy release of POUNDS of matter/anti-matter annihilation.

What movie showed a star destroyer taking that kind of beating? And why are the officers on board the Death Star worried about the Rebel fleet, when they can apparently crash into a planet at full speed, crack the planet in half, and drive on through without a scratch?

Proton Torpedoes

As the above image caption indicates, Imperial MG7-A proton torpedoes are nuclear weapons utilizing advanced technology to direct the energy release toward the target rather than allowing it to disperse in all directions like the energy from a primitive Federation photon torpedo. This makes them tactically superior to photon torpedoes in some ways, because there is no danger of damage to the vessel which fired the torpedo. However, most proton torpedoes are low-yield devices intended for use against "soft targets" like ground installations or fighters, and proton torpedoes are generally useless against capital ships until their shields are dropped. Even the special emission-type heavy proton torpedoes carried by B-wing fighters are totally useless against capital ships until their shields are dropped, but they are useful against smaller targets.

Proton torpedoes are highly maneuverable; Luke Skywalker's torpedoes easily executed a 90 degree turn within the 2 metre diameter of the DS1's exhaust port in ANH. Based on a very conservative travel-speed estimate of 1 km/sec, this equates to a 72,000 g turn! Proton torpedoes are also very accurate, and can strike to within 3 metres under optimum conditions (although broadband sensor jamming tends to reduce their accuracy in battle). These torpedoes can be carried by starfighters and can potentially be used against Federation starships in a swarming attack. This may be most useful against their smaller, more highly maneuverable starships like their Defiant-class vessels, which may be able to elude the fire from our heavy turbolaser turrets. If this is the case, we might be able to hit them only with our light defense cannons, so these vessels would be ideal targets for fighters carrying heavy torpedoes.

Concussion missile launcher diagramThe energy yield of proton torpedoes depends on the exact model being used, but the largest ones exhibit power in the megaton or gigaton range. The recoil dissipation bracings on Imperial Star Destroyers can withstand "explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range" (ref. Slave Ship), and the Rebel fighters in Iron Fist used their proton torpedoes to blast through the hull armour of an unshielded Executor-class Star Destroyer.

However, it should be noted that this was a special mission, and the fighters probably carried the largest-yield weapons available. In general, proton torpedoes are armed for light targets only, and are only useful for pinpoint attacks on vessels whose shields have already been dropped by capital ship weapons.

Concussion Missiles

Imperial concussion missiles, like proton torpedoes, are nuclear-yield explosive devices. However, they are designed to penetrate a heavily armored target and detonate inside the armor shell, for increased effectiveness. Their pre-flight configuration is markedly different from their appearance in flight, as can be seen by comparing the Millenium Falcon's concussion missile launch rack (at right) to its missiles in flight (below). This substantiates that fact that concussion missiles are not simple 20th century-style missiles, contrary to the erroneous claims of various Federation cultists. We do not predict that concussion missiles will play a significant role in a conflict with the Federation because we would have to drop a Federation starship's shields before we could use them, and once their shields are dropped the ship would be quickly destroyed regardless of whether concussion missiles are used.

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I don't buy the attack and defensive capabilities you claim for the ISD, and challenge you to demonstrate where they are in the movies. But ignoring that, and for sake of argument, lets give you that. Using those capabilities, how can the ISD possibly respond to the above tactic? It's a simple and well known one. The British stomped the Spanish Armada using it. The Spanish were huge, and had huge guns, and the British navy danced around them and put them down. What will the ISD do to avoid a similar fate?

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What is it that you expect? How many times did someone on star trek get hit with a phaser/disruptor and survive.



The enterprise has get hit with photon torpedos without any shields and the ship does not go supernova like some people suggest. Power levels are dictated by plot, Leia gets shot and lives, but shoots a storm trooper with protective armor who dies immediately.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98qmflLdOpI

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Leia gets shot by a baster set on stun...

 

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I was talking about during the fight on endor.

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Lots of discussion on SD turbolaser power vs asteroids which are several times the size of the Falcon being vaporized.

This image is from the same scene, a few frames earlier. The asteroid must be in the path of the Avenger, or it would have been left untouched. Thus, it is closer to the Falcon than it is to the camera. I measured it at about 24 pixels in diameter, almost exactly twice that of the Falcon at about 12. If the Falcon is 53 meters long, then the asteroid must be on the order of 100 meters in diameter. This would require over 31,000 terajoules to vaporise. If the duration of the bolt is 1/15 second, then its energy is delivered at a rate of at least 465,000 terawatts.


465,000 Terawatts = 465 gigawatts per shot.

.

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when comparing something like this, you have to use canon. No books, just movies and television. If you throw in non canon, all one has to do is take one universe, write a technical manual or story where one ship develops a weapon that is out of phase and deatomizes matter upon contact that no ship, no matter how big, will be destroyed. If this is the case then Trek would win hands down. Turbolasers are lasers, because nothing is said otherwise, and from the ST episode "The Outrageous Okana"

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ah well then shot placement is key.