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Posted: 4/1/2017 1:29:03 AM EDT
[#1]
This thread has been interesting to say they least. The black insurgents were commies. That should have been reason enough for the US to support Rhodesia in their fight.
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Posted: 4/1/2017 10:32:07 AM EDT
[#2]
just a test
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Posted: 4/1/2017 11:33:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread has been interesting to say they least. The black insurgents were commies. That should have been reason enough for the US to support Rhodesia in their fight. Unfortunately the the US administration was ate up with commies themselves. |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 8:34:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it really this hard to understand my point? Yes, the white government was better than Mugabe, but the inexorable forces of history guaranteed that Rhodesia could not remain a white dominated state. By fighting the inevitable the Rhodesians allowed Mugabe to rise from a nobody school teacher to the ruthless leader of an insurgent force which had assassinated, exiled, or marginalised all the potentially better black leaders. In doing so they sowed the seeds of their own destruction. |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 9:17:28 PM EDT
[#5]
I am gonna save this thread
Rhodie fixed wing aircraft Lynx  Attached FileYes those are cannons mounted on top 
Vampire  Attached File
Canberra 
Green Leader Raid  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 9:34:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Awesome Rhodesian Vehicles
Crocodile  Attached File
 Attached FilePookie  Attached File.jpg)
Pig 
This is a model, but pictures are rare 
uparmored land rover, internet virtual cookie if you can tell me who is riding in it  Attached Fileuparmor ALL THE THINGS  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 9:43:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Rhodesian Women
form leaves something to be desired, but terrorists might cut her up 
Now I know why this cammo pattern is so popular 
The women seem to have gotten most of the SMGs 
 Attached Filebut it's hard to wield one while carrying a toddler  Attached FileMiss Rhodesia 
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Posted: 4/1/2017 9:52:46 PM EDT
[#8]
The men knew how to shoot
They were well represented in IPSC and the world shoot was held there in 1977 
They also seemed to invent three gun rifle shooting  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 10:01:23 PM EDT
[#9]
This post is dedicated to poop cammoed FALs
We'll throw in a MAG since it segues in to my next post 
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Posted: 4/1/2017 10:07:01 PM EDT
[#10]
70s shorts in the bush
 Attached File Attached File
She's got a Rhodesian Ridgeback and short shorts so I'm gonna post it 
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Posted: 4/1/2017 10:15:18 PM EDT
[#11]
This post is dedicated to the
who probably got screwed more than anybody involved They patrolled on boats 
they did fire force from helicopters 
they even jumped 
they hunted terrs everywhere 
They worked with whites 
and they could turn out a good parade like professional soldiers (this is who should have gotten the country) 
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Posted: 4/1/2017 10:39:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Read the description, it will bring tears
 Sweet Banana https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cue8E_rsu4 This one will cheer you back up  I wish i was a Blue Job (Rhodesian Light Infantry) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clIjgSPRSqY |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:04:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no shit, did not know that  ?
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:39:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From my understanding and perspective: 1) Rhodesia was abandoned by the international community, and the US in particular. The reasons for that were (real of perceived) injustice. The movement that ended international recognition of Rhodesia used the same language as the left has been using against the right for decades. 2) Rhodesia was a productive country before, and rapidly descended into poverty after. This reinforces the idea of a leftist revolution resulting in destruction. 3) The factions that rose up against the white minority government were ideologically communist, and were funded and armed by the Soviets - and fuck the Soviets. 4) The people of Rhodesia put up a hell of a fight. They were outnumbered, outgunned, and literally had the world against them - but they persisted, and held on for fifteen years. 5) It was a photogenic conflict. A bunch of dudes running around in short shorts and carrying FALs in the 1970s? That shit was cool. Add in the facts that they had a gender-integrated armed forces and that the conflict was often fought by families defending their own land, and you've got something that's easy for most people to relate to. 6) They ultimately lost. Just as the Confederacy has a "Lost Cause" mythos, Rhodesia has an air of "what could have been". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lots of threads about a country that isn't even a country any more. How about Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia? Zanzibar? Catalonia? 1) Rhodesia was abandoned by the international community, and the US in particular. The reasons for that were (real of perceived) injustice. The movement that ended international recognition of Rhodesia used the same language as the left has been using against the right for decades. 2) Rhodesia was a productive country before, and rapidly descended into poverty after. This reinforces the idea of a leftist revolution resulting in destruction. 3) The factions that rose up against the white minority government were ideologically communist, and were funded and armed by the Soviets - and fuck the Soviets. 4) The people of Rhodesia put up a hell of a fight. They were outnumbered, outgunned, and literally had the world against them - but they persisted, and held on for fifteen years. 5) It was a photogenic conflict. A bunch of dudes running around in short shorts and carrying FALs in the 1970s? That shit was cool. Add in the facts that they had a gender-integrated armed forces and that the conflict was often fought by families defending their own land, and you've got something that's easy for most people to relate to. 6) They ultimately lost. Just as the Confederacy has a "Lost Cause" mythos, Rhodesia has an air of "what could have been". |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:00:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep Unfortunately the the US administration was ate up with commies themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This thread has been interesting to say they least. The black insurgents were commies. That should have been reason enough for the US to support Rhodesia in their fight. Unfortunately the the US administration was ate up with commies themselves.  - was stopping any aid Somoza could get against the Sandinistas and had a UN ambassador who claimed Khomeini would be remembered as a saint.
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:08:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
uparmored land rover, internet virtual cookie if you can tell me who is riding in it https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/55313/merc-SOF-179040.JPG |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:23:23 AM EDT
[#17]
So here's a topic for discussion.
I finished Chris Cocks' Fireforce a few weeks ago and something struck me as odd. At several points Cocks compared it to Vietnam in that he didn't know what any of them were fighting for and politicians were sending boys to die for nothing. At the time was this not seen as a fight for the countries survival? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 6:51:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's Dugan Ashley's dad and David Koresh Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
uparmored land rover, internet virtual cookie if you can tell me who is riding in it https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/55313/merc-SOF-179040.JPG |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 7:19:08 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can we bring back Rhodesia? Like as a country? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 8:58:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dillan Roof has a hard on for Rhodesia. Why does OP? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 9:30:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe read the last 8 pages and find out. There is some great discussion of the history of the country, and the bush wars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dillan Roof has a hard on for Rhodesia. Why does OP? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 10:16:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's Dugan Ashley's dad and David Koresh Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
uparmored land rover, internet virtual cookie if you can tell me who is riding in it https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/55313/merc-SOF-179040.JPG |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 10:38:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So here's a topic for discussion. I finished Chris Cocks' Fireforce a few weeks ago and something struck me as odd. At several points Cocks compared it to Vietnam in that he didn't know what any of them were fighting for and politicians were sending boys to die for nothing. At the time was this not seen as a fight for the countries survival? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 10:43:55 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread has been interesting to say they least. The black insurgents were commies. That should have been reason enough for the US to support Rhodesia in their fight. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 11:32:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bro (and what an apropos name you have chosen btw) Smith and to various extents his advisers absolutely DID believe this, or eventually came to believe this, you can read all about it in his biography for one. You know in actual books made of dead trees that are hard to edit, not wikipedia. Furthermore, Smith DID give up power to majority elected black government. And ZAPU was formed 10 days after UDI FYI, and whoa turns out it was bankrolled by the soviets from the start, and staffed with their star marxist pupils Mugabe, Nkomo and Sithole that worked to overthrow the government from day 10. Seriously, I'm not sure if its your ignorance or arrogance that people in this thread find more offensive. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 11:38:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reagan would not have touched it with a ten foot poll. No American President would have, to think otherwise is to ignore political reality. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 11:47:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its an interesting theory, but I don't think Regan would have backed Rhodesia, the Brits absolutely and totally hated the Smith government and did everything they could to collapse it. Regan wouldn't have risked loosing the good graces of the British over Rhodesia. I mean look at the whole Falklands mess, the US and the argies had reasonable relations prior, and under the bus they went the moment they crossed the British... |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:18:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you a clue on what Reagan was about, or for? He would have backed them, to the amount of what ever it took to keep the communists out of there. He was as anti communism as anyone could be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Reagan would not have touched it with a ten foot poll. No American President would have, to think otherwise is to ignore political reality. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:57:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cock's was fighting near the end where the intensity of the war picked up, this also coincided with the fact by that point many Rhodesians saw majority rule as an imminent thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So here's a topic for discussion. I finished Chris Cocks' Fireforce a few weeks ago and something struck me as odd. At several points Cocks compared it to Vietnam in that he didn't know what any of them were fighting for and politicians were sending boys to die for nothing. At the time was this not seen as a fight for the countries survival? |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:00:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At the same time,Carter -put into office by supposedly anti-Communist Southern Christians - was stopping any aid Somoza could get against the Sandinistas and had a UN ambassador who claimed Khomeini would be remembered as a saint.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread has been interesting to say they least. The black insurgents were commies. That should have been reason enough for the US to support Rhodesia in their fight. Unfortunately the the US administration was ate up with commies themselves. - was stopping any aid Somoza could get against the Sandinistas and had a UN ambassador who claimed Khomeini would be remembered as a saint. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:07:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the guy on the far left was Robert Brown owner of SOF magazine. I think he was there at some point. 
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:12:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took a bite because you are second guessing yourself http://bilmoore.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cookie_with_bite.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought the guy on the far left was Robert Brown owner of SOF magazine. I think he was there at some point. http://bilmoore.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cookie_with_bite.jpg 
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:13:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fully understand Regan... Do you think for a second he would have lost a ton of political capital for openly supporting a racist white supremacist regime (not that it was necessarily) but that is how it would have been played by the american media of the day (and was throughout the 60's 70's). Yes Regan hated communism, and did beat it, so did Thatcher, but neither would have supported a minority government in Rhodesia IMO. But both had far bigger, and easier fish to fry in the 80's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reagan would not have touched it with a ten foot poll. No American President would have, to think otherwise is to ignore political reality. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:17:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not disagreeing with this, but it makes for an interesting what if. Would he have supported the Abel Muzorewa Zimbabwe-Rhodesia 1979 government? Would he have allowed under the table sanction busting aid like he did in Nicaragua? Would either of those things have helped? (I doubt they would have helped based on what I said in my last response to you) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reagan would not have touched it with a ten foot poll. No American President would have, to think otherwise is to ignore political reality. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:49:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not disagreeing with this, but it makes for an interesting what if. Would he have supported the Abel Muzorewa Zimbabwe-Rhodesia 1979 government? Would he have allowed under the table sanction busting aid like he did in Nicaragua? Would either of those things have helped? (I doubt they would have helped based on what I said in my last response to you) |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 1:53:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He openly supported the RSA. He would have supported Rhodesia-Zimbabwe. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 2:06:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fully understand Regan... Do you think for a second he would have lost a ton of political capital for openly supporting a racist white supremacist regime (not that it was necessarily) but that is how it would have been played by the american media of the day (and was throughout the 60's 70's). Yes Regan hated communism, and did beat it, so did Thatcher, but neither would have supported a minority government in Rhodesia IMO. But both had far bigger, and easier fish to fry in the 80's. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 2:16:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will add several points to this 1) by that point many of the whites had already fled 2) the white population of Rhodesia was doing military service that would make the Spartans pale (ie each one did basic training then three years then a couple of months a year as reserves while having to run convoy duty just to go get groceries) 3) he was a kid and had his opines formed more from his own worldview that larger pictures (those his worldview certainly warrants examination) Also, the Rhodesians were operating under an embargo and faced guerillas that were well supplied with arms and equipment (look at the SA-7's used to down 2 airliners). The Rhodesians, while making due with less and what South Africa may be able pass on or "loan", excelled at training and operations (their counter ambush drill for example was based on experience and while rate of fire was important, where that fire was directed as a result of experience, study and training often had tangible effects) . The kill ratio was something like 1 to 8 for the Rhodesians during the war. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 2:26:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I always found interesting was the numbers for the Rhodesian Military/Security Forces and Police. Early in the bush war, the military had just over 3,400 regular troops and by late in the war only had under 11,000 regular troops supported by about 40,000 reservists. The police (BSAP) had 8000 to 11,000 officers who also had a reserve force of 19,000 to 35,000 men. The Police were mostly black, but the reserves were mostly white. Also, the Rhodesians were operating under an embargo and faced guerillas that were well supplied with arms and equipment (look at the SA-7's used to down 2 airliners). The Rhodesians, while making due with less and what South Africa may be able pass on or "loan", excelled at training and operations (their counter ambush drill for example was based on experience and while rate of fire was important, where that fire was directed as a result of experience, study and training often had tangible effects) . The kill ratio was something like 1 to 8 for the Rhodesians during the war. Link to article on RLI lessons learned that specifically discusses some of what you are refering too. Seems like you might have read it. But it is a must read for anyone interested in the importance of training and/or small unit military history. It's a PDF download. Drake Shooting |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 2:58:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not disagreeing with this, but it makes for an interesting what if. Would he have supported the Abel Muzorewa Zimbabwe-Rhodesia 1979 government? Would he have allowed under the table sanction busting aid like he did in Nicaragua? Would either of those things have helped? (I doubt they would have helped based on what I said in my last response to you) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reagan would not have touched it with a ten foot poll. No American President would have, to think otherwise is to ignore political reality. As for how effective it might be. It really depended more on how Mugabe and Nkomo would have reacted. At the time they knew the British would never accept Muzorewa so they kept pushing and won. If Muzorewa had a strong backing and international approval I still think they would have kept at it, but then it would have become a west-vs-communism fight. ZIPRA was actually massing for a conventional combined arms attack into Rhodesia in the early 80's and one that the Rhodesian Army was pretty ill prepared to stop, of course maybe the SADF would have rode in had that happened in our fantasy scenario. Short and honest answer, its pretty complicated. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 3:02:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I always found interesting was the numbers for the Rhodesian Military/Security Forces and Police. Early in the bush war, the military had just over 3,400 regular troops and by late in the war only had under 11,000 regular troops supported by about 40,000 reservists. The police (BSAP) had 8000 to 11,000 officers who also had a reserve force of 19,000 to 35,000 men. The Police were mostly black, but the reserves were mostly white. Also, the Rhodesians were operating under an embargo and faced guerillas that were well supplied with arms and equipment (look at the SA-7's used to down 2 airliners). The Rhodesians, while making due with less and what South Africa may be able pass on or "loan", excelled at training and operations (their counter ambush drill for example was based on experience and while rate of fire was important, where that fire was directed as a result of experience, study and training often had tangible effects) . The kill ratio was something like 1 to 8 for the Rhodesians during the war. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 3:33:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Made it to page four before the purse swinging got old. Pictures were great though.
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Posted: 4/2/2017 3:58:08 PM EDT
[#43]
The pictures posted were awesome, I agree. Africa sure might be different today if Rhodesia had survived and prospered. Seems like the dark Continent is much poorer for it's loss.
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:00:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Rhodesian were superb, even their black soldiers. Link to article on RLI lessons learned that specifically discusses some of what you are refering too. Seems like you might have read it. But it is a must read for anyone interested in the importance of training and/or small unit military history. It's a PDF download. Drake Shooting Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What I always found interesting was the numbers for the Rhodesian Military/Security Forces and Police. Early in the bush war, the military had just over 3,400 regular troops and by late in the war only had under 11,000 regular troops supported by about 40,000 reservists. The police (BSAP) had 8000 to 11,000 officers who also had a reserve force of 19,000 to 35,000 men. The Police were mostly black, but the reserves were mostly white. Also, the Rhodesians were operating under an embargo and faced guerillas that were well supplied with arms and equipment (look at the SA-7's used to down 2 airliners). The Rhodesians, while making due with less and what South Africa may be able pass on or "loan", excelled at training and operations (their counter ambush drill for example was based on experience and while rate of fire was important, where that fire was directed as a result of experience, study and training often had tangible effects) . The kill ratio was something like 1 to 8 for the Rhodesians during the war. Link to article on RLI lessons learned that specifically discusses some of what you are refering too. Seems like you might have read it. But it is a must read for anyone interested in the importance of training and/or small unit military history. It's a PDF download. Drake Shooting |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:04:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of threads about a country that isn't even a country any more. How about Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia? Zanzibar? Catalonia? 
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:09:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and they could turn out a good parade like professional soldiers (this is who should have gotten the country) http://n7.alamy.com/zooms/2ef1df613b9f42b384d42e6df1d7d829/feb-26-2012-april-1980-final-passing-out-parade-of-rhodesian-african-e13340.jpg Still,Thatcher is a hero to Republicans via dick riding Reagan. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:10:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Ignoring the racial and right or wrong aspects, Rhodesia is interesting and worth study because of the problems (and solutions found for them) created by internationally supported communists targeting and assaulting people who tried to spend most of their time farming instead of fighting.
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:41:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Has this picture been posted? Cause it has it all...
This post is dedicated to bad ass small arms, other than FALs since that was already covered) These guns have a story to tell 
I'll see your sawn off RPD and raise you twin Brownings (must have been a bitch to balance on the mount) 
G3s/CETMEs were pretty common, have been in a couple of posts. Was it Portuguese influence? 
The classic A5, were birds that bad in Rhodesia? Yeah I slipped a CW joke in there. 
STENs and Owens were apparently around 
BRENs should have been around too 
Locally made SMG 
They did that a lot 
Not many ARs in Rhodesia 
I'd love to hear the story behind this  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 5:03:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ignoring the racial and right or wrong aspects, Rhodesia is interesting and worth study because of the problems (and solutions found for them) created by internationally supported communists targeting and assaulting people who tried to spend most of their time farming instead of fighting. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 5:04:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has this picture been posted? Cause it has it all... http://i39.tinypic.com/2lkbjty.jpg This post is dedicated to bad ass small arms, other than FALs since that was already covered) These guns have a story to tell https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ff/6b/28/ff6b284e3619e186a0bcb0799a059e35.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/09/RHODNo5-1.jpg I'll see your sawn off RPD and raise you twin Brownings (must have been a bitch to balance on the mount) http://selousscouts.tripod.com/rac14.jpg G3s/CETMEs were pretty common, have been in a couple of posts. Was it Portuguese influence? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/5b/c3/fe/5bc3fe115fb4cf7dcd9eb0a04dc2bb10.jpg The classic A5, were birds that bad in Rhodesia? Yeah I slipped a CW joke in there. http://oi60.tinypic.com/9fwufk.jpg STENs and Owens were apparently around http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y333/neil0841/Owen%20and%20Austen%20guns/DSC_0027.jpg BRENs should have been around too https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/44/34/40/44344041ee46d5161ef23e21b0089e37.jpg Locally made SMG http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/0a1a1cobra/0a1a1cobra-036610_2.jpg They did that a lot http://68.media.tumblr.com/8ba21af308455d939a76a4864cb6ed10/tumblr_o0190xo5WC1s57vgxo3_1280.jpg Not many ARs in Rhodesia https://68.media.tumblr.com/eeab788b1c73540a996e7d7cc53238d9/tumblr_ngnof5ZZcg1rji3x6o1_500.jpg I'd love to hear the story behind this https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/55313/OrigAR10inRhodesia001-zps1b8c3897-179585.JPG |
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