FPNI.

There is literally absolutely nothing you can do.  When the addict makes the choice to quit, you can support them(not financially or materially, but emotionally), but no, you cannot convince them to quit.  Nothing you can do can encourage quitting.

Cut off contact completely.  Make it known that contact cannot be re-established until they have self enrolled in a rehab program.  Then you can allow contact under the direction and supervision of the rehab directors or counselors.

sadly this

Supplying any support is known as enabling and it does not help the junkie.  The junkie needs to feel all of the negative consequences of being a junkie.  That may mean a stint in jail or becoming homeless.

Did you call the cops and report the theft?  If not see my above statement on enabling.

30-90 rehabs are just patches. My kid has been in those and jail and can't wait to start over. It doesn't matter what it is either. Meth, heroin, weed, booze it's all good. We check a couple of times a month to see if he's in jail. He likes it and from my limited research, his brain had become permenantly "rewired" so he can't think rationally anymore. It would take months if not years to treat the whole person and do it right. Who has that kind of money................

Give them some more stuff hopefully they od. Be easier in the long run

I'm gonna try to put my understanding of the problem in a nutshell.

People become addicted to opioids for various reasons:

Some try H when it is offered to them, discover that they like the way it makes them feel...and keep using. Bam- addiction.

Some people get seriously injured, truly suffer and cannot function through daily pain without the help of opioid prescriptions. Bam- addiction.

Some people get sort of injured and doctors push the prescriptions on them, without regard for the level of injury or need for script. Bam- addiction.

What most of these people have in common is a discovery and realization that comes to them after feeling that initial, opioid-naive high: That those drugs make them feel better inside than they have ever felt, in their lives. If this discovery is made within the context of serious parental neglect/abuse and horrific childhood trauma, then there is another layer of enslavement added to the neurochemical addiction. These people know, and can never "unknow," that all of the pain they have carried around in their hearts for years- the suicidal thoughts- the numb, less-than-human feelings- ALL of that stuff can be made to go away for the duration of a dose's half-life. And they fool themselves in to thinking that this beast can be uncaged, allowed to roam around free, but that it can be tamed in to some kind of servant for them. Because it can't. Once you open that cage door, it's out- and you're fucked. It will kill you. It will kill you without mercy or compassion, it will leave you a lifeless cold blue corpse on the floor of a roach-infested drug house.

Plenty of people with addiction realize that they are killing themselves. Hell, plenty of them don't even FEEL the high anymore- because they've escalated their neurochemical tolerance to the point that dosing with a drug just prevents them from going in to withdrawal. Withdrawal from opioids of any kind is FUCKING BRUTAL. If you were suicidal before your addiction, it will take the steering wheel away from your common sense and drive you to blow your brains out. You will spend days, perhaps weeks, unable to get out of bed- freezing, shivering, every muscle in your body aching and your legs unable to stop moving. You will be unable to stop shitting yourself and emptying your bowels- you will be in absolute hell on fucking earth with some of the darkest and most painful, horrific thoughts that you have ever had the misfortune of dealing with in your life. It is fucking BRUTAL to withdraw- and most H addicts know this, so they decide to just go with the flow and keep feeding that beast of an addiction. Maybe even getting lucky once or twice and feeling an actual high from a more potent product of whatever dose they can afford, from whatever dealer's batch they are purchasing from.

Quitting cold-turkey is something that very few people who find themselves with addiction will have the courage, discipline and inner strength to do. Did you know that there are endogenous opioids in human breastmilk? Babies develop a tolerance to them...the breast-feeding mother secretes those to very gently drug her baby in to sleep and comfort. Do some research on "casomorphin." In that light, Opioids are especially powerful and dangerous- they are the first actual drug that many human brains are exposed to. They summon feelings of comfort, mother's love. And it's been that way for god knows how many thousands of years. We are born with the receptors needed to put them to use.

Do some research on Kratom. Kratom helps to block the brain's ability to feel pleasure from opioid narcotics. It helps an addict to stay calm- to not withdraw from whatever substance they are addicted to. That empowers them to stop their habits. In the long term management, relapses are VERY common for addicts...Kratom gives them a safe way to deal with those impulses when they feel a need to dose with something. Like caffeine, nicotine, food, etc- Kratom should not be ABUSED- but the withdrawals from long term Kratom use are a light-hearted JOKE compared to even alcohol withdrawal or nicotine cessation. Letalone heroin or the prescription narcotic candy that some doctors peddle out without a thought.

The stuff is a true miracle in a world where pharmaceutical companies and drug dealers are using their product to completely transform our population. To tear our national fabric apart. Why do you think the CIA wanted to experiment with Opioids as a way to manage and control entire countries? It's all there in declassified files- none of that is tinfoil bullshit.

Re: the Kratom ban attempt by DEA, it's being instigated by DEEP pockets from the Pharmaceutical companies. They aren't even shy about admitting that they fund this type of shit- that they lobby for it. These people see Kratom as a major threat to their profit margins. They NEED the opioid crisis.

That's not what you do with close friends or family. You circle the wagons.

Your comment doesn't sound cool, edgy or sociopathic enough for some of our local adolecents...but you've got a good heart man.

The correct answer(s). ^^^

ETA: 2 of my wife's nephews are heroin addicts. They grew-up 1/2 a mile from me. Heroin was unobtanium, in my AO, until AFG.

I blame big brother. If I cared enough...if they were MY nephews...I would risk the FBI kidnapping task-force.

They're not...I won't.

I know of someone...

To the OP, you will be seen as heartless by some. You will actually become invisible, of secondary importance, at least, that’s how you will come to feel. Even when after you’ve helped as much as you could, stood by as long as you could, supported as much as you could. It will never be enough. Addiction is a hell of a thing. People turn into something else.

Not a damn thing by anyone but the user.

My BIL's family had an intervention for his brother while he was home from CA for his mother's funeral.

It was one of those "you have to make the decision now" and go to an in-house facility.
BIL's family had to pay what I have guestimated as around $50K up front.

The family started getting vague answers about his progress on about Day 7.   It wasn't long before they started getting more requests for money from him back in CA.

You cannot fix an addict that doesn't want to be fixed.  All they become is an emotional and financial drain on you and all that you love.

BIL's brother is 53, and has already watched many of his drug-friends from the past die.  He's already had to have parts of one foot amputated, and the other foot completely amputated.

When he came for the funeral, I could SMELL the disease on him-- and it turns out that he has Staph infection several places.  I convinced the family to burn EVERYTHING he sat or slept in.

When a person becomes addicted to such as that, the person you used to know isn't there anymore.

And that's it in a nutshell.

No, but she is a close friends daughter.

She isn't really family, but her mother is who I am speaking for, and she may as well be family. It tears me up to see her going through this shit.

Have her mother seek out someone affiliated with groups such as Narcotics Annonymous and get some information on what’s available... it doesn’t always have to be the hitting-rock-bottom scenario in order for an addict to take advantage of what tools may be helpful

First reply is spot on.
Best wishes for both of you.

Death or detox and the worst part is you absolutely cannot make someone do something they don't for real want to do. If it's to the level you describe in op I would literally cut them off. Done deal.

I don't have any experience with hard drugs, but one thing I can tell you from trying to get over my drinking problem when you combine that shit sometimes you're drinking just to feel normal and sometime you're doing your damnedest to put the bottle to your head and pull the trigger so you never feel that way again. I was smart enough to, first of all stick with the devil I knew, and second, realize what I was doing to myself and got a handle on that shit.

The only way you're going to stop an addict if they don't want to stop is to chain them to a chair.

No kids on the pipe,  but I’ve had friends...
I’ve had a funeral to attend to this year.

My longest running friend fell into the drug world 11 years ago,  skipping past the weed portion. Started with coke when he made $100k a year at 21 years old,  budgeted back to pills when he lost that job,  pills turned to heroin.

This fucking asshole overdosed twice and was pronounced dead once.

Apparently that was what it took for him to take his seventh trip to rehab seriously.  Got out of rehab and into a halfway house over on Detroit’s west side...  Still kept it up. No more drinking, no pills,  just cigarettes. It was great while he was in the halfway house because I was close by and could pick him up for an evening and do things like back in high school and have fun.

His one year clean was a few weeks ago.

He literally had to die to want to stop.

I think you nailed it.

The good thing about K is, it gives them the desire to stop- so that they can be impelled to go in a different (life-altering) direction. They don't have to sacrifice the substance use- but they can change the substance itself to something that is damn near harmless. You know how some people chew gum when they try to quit smoking? Sort of a re-directive programming. Gives them something to dose with...a healthy "habit" that can truly (almost instantly) help with the crushing weight of a depression attack. Has been a life saver for me- my body is fucked from a car accident. Injections in to my spine/spinal cord (epidurals) help, but they make the damage far worse over time. Even if they didn't cause further damage, the pain relief is by no means enough to let me have the functionality that I need in life for my family. Kratom is the reason I'm able to work a full time job and spend quality time with my son- it has done a tremendous job in helping me to avoid the evils of prescription opioids. Life without it would really suck and I'd probably end up as a huge burden on my family. It's also done something amazing in helping me to be a more positive, less depressed person- makes stress, sorrow, grief- all of those things melt away and allows me to focus positive energy on things that matter.

I enjoyed Seraphims' ethereal posts.

They were fueled by Kratom?

No. I still enjoy his posts, and the only way to "help" my nephews, is to tie them up in the basement. Which I would do...if I loved them.

I'm not afraid to die. I have to choose my battles.

true.
My brother is an example of this. he died shortly after hitting bottom and asking for help.

however, it is not just physical detox, but mental detox as well. Tons of patience is needed to go along with the withdrawl symptoms and mental recovery.

send them to this kid for rehab...



Serious answer...Probably not much you can do unless you physically remove them from their environment and put them into rehab.

People who say "let them hit rock bottom"  need to understand that for a heroin addict rock bottom is death.    At that point its too late.  Jail and 30 day treatments are pretty useless.   It takes a long-term program at a minimum.   And sadly in most cases if someone makes it to heroin they won't survive it.   Sadly I know it all too personally.

Carl is getting them straight isn't he?

Nothing.

Learn what, "enabling," is and don't do it. Loved ones, often unknowingly, make it easier for an addict to be an addict. Doing so enables the addict to escape the consequences of their behavior. That's not a good thing for either you or your daughter.

Get the suppliers to cut more

Having been through this with extended family (twice) all I can say is that Drug Addict = Zombie, they are literally gone and only a soulless body that craves nothing but brains drugs remains. Now, I am talking about a full blown addiction not a single bad decision. However, a person can become an addict frighteningly fast.

An addict is no longer friend nor family. They will steal from you, they will endanger you, they will destroy you if you keep them in your life.

My SIL's Son (Heroin junkie) owed money to a Dealer who decided to stop by his house (Mother's house) looking for it

Nothing.  Occasionally the underbrush needs burned to make the forest healthier.

This "epidemic" will wane in a few years. It is hardly as if there wasn't  laudanum available OTC in every town in America at one point and the nation didn't turn into a mass of zombies.

They also have to put their signature under it.  It can be tattooed.

As well meaning as your intentions are, no.  And there is nothing you can do to fix it.  They have to want it, short of that you will do nothing but drive them to the drug more than ever.

Something for you to mull over: You are putting more thought into them, and how to help them, and their future, than they are.

Not true at all. There are rehab programs that aren't based on the 12 steps. I would look into suboxone treatment. It's a safer replacement for heroin and she can taper off slowly while getting her shit together.

Yep, something like 1 in 30 will maintain sobriety.

This is good info, but the suboxone itself can and will get you high, just not as intense as heroin. It does prevent users from getting high on heroin or other opiates as it blocks the opiate receptors.

Not true. Everybody is different of course,  but you can taper off suboxone with minimal withdrawl compared to full opiates like heroin.

Thanks dude

Well, Kratom certainly puts me in a better mood and it clears the cobwebs out of my head

I think it helps me to feel a spectrum of emotion and depth that pain and the occasional blues rob me of. May sound crazy, but I believe we'd probably have a smarter and more empathetic population (Conservative by extension) if people added a little white vein maengda to their coffee in the mornings. It's definitely nootropic for me.  

Having seen suboxone users, it's just as bad as methadone.

Not to mention easily smuggled into jails and goes for a high price.

We had a huge problem with it when I left corrections a year ago. Still do from what I hear

Back then we had a "no-workee, no-eatee" economy.

Send me an IM with your contact details if you'd like to talk. Email, phone, whatever youre comfortable with.

Unfortunately I knkw this story all too well.  I worked for the state in substance abuse and mental health, and had issues with an addict in the family too. I posted a thread about it some time back.  You probably wont like most of what I have to say, but these are life and death situations and you have to hit them head on.

There's hope though. My brother was on the street for several years and is now coming up on 3 years clean and is doing well.

Reach out when you're ready and I'll do everything I can to help and hook you up with resources.

Unfortunately probably this.  I watched a friends daughter go down that road with meth.

Lock them in a room, and give them ibogaine for a week.

Stop using Narcan.
Let it burn itself out.

Getting a drug addict to stop using is like asking me to stop fucking....it aint gonna happen!

Why is a 24yo guy "supporting" a 28yo junkie stripper AND her boyfriend who aren't even related to him?

You used to date her or you're trying to?

Apparently, legalizing drugs will get rid of the problem.

This.

And even when they want to be fixed, it usually doesn't work out. They are just a constant and painful drain on family and society and contribute nothing positive to this world.

How much of an asshole do you think you come across as, right now?

Is that just an act, like part of some sort of show or is this just you?

ugh, I feel dirty simply for even interacting with your avatar.

Enjoy the rest of your life

This is the only way, but you also have to cut ties, otherwise it is continual enabling.  My best friend is killing his son by not cutting ties. In his case it is meth.  All the kid does is make a tiny bit of progress and then meet a former piece of ass with some dope.  Then right back into the same cycle of stealing shit and getting locked up. Rehab and halfway houses only expose him to other dopers, and are always an expensive failure.

These shit heads always start with stealing from family so they don't expect to get reported.  My friend thinks he can load a credit card with some cash and the kid won't steal from the house, and he won't buy dope.  Dead wrong.  His other sons that are relatively clean get it.  Dad keeps enabling.