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Posted: 3/8/2018 1:54:23 PM EDT
[#1]
With all the pharmaceuticals in wastewater I'm surprised they would want to put this in the ground. At least a large portion of pharmaceuticals and endocrine disruptors will degrade within days due to solar radiation and biological processes. There will be exponentially less natural attenuation in the ground
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Posted: 3/8/2018 1:57:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Folks don't usually understand the path their water takes prior to getting to them. Will be an expansion of water reuse projects. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:01:10 PM EDT
[#3]
I picture people getting sick and Cali blaming Trump.
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:03:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really. There's a reason the enviro agencies don't talk about the pharmaceuticals in the environment. At least most degrade quickly in the waterways, they not do in the ground. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This. Folks don't usually understand the path their water takes prior to getting to them. Will be an expansion of water reuse projects. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:07:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe they have a de-sal plant in North San Diego County. One in Santa Barbara is off line. Proposals have a high regulatory bar. "An official at a smaller desal facility told me it took $25,000 of electricity per month to produce enough water for 1,200 homes. In Cal Am’s case, they’re hoping to reach a deal to power the plant using methane from a nearby landfill." https://www.kqed.org/science/28668/why-isnt-desalination-the-answer-to-all-californias-water-problems $200 per month per home to produce water. Seems like a lot of the mega cities across the country are having water problems. It’s going to take expensive solutions to make sustainable fixes, but it’s better to make them sooner than later. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:09:21 PM EDT
[#6]
That happens all over the place. Where did you think it goes?
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:09:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All water is recycled water. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:13:07 PM EDT
[#8]
(deleted)
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:16:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Nothing new.
Water used for residential use is pulled from the rivers and lakes. They are already putting treated waste water back into the rivers (feather, Yuba, Sac). The treated waste water that goes into the river, is cleaner than what they pull out and provide to communities... Testing have proven this many times. Treated waste water is cleaner than water district supply. 
I’m on a well and have septic system. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:17:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Pharms and endocrine disruptors are so last year though. The hot button for graduate research is premise plumbing pathogens now.
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:32:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All water is recycled water. We discharged into the river and our water wells were along the river. Mind you they were upstream of the wastewater plant. Coshochton and Newark both had wastewater plants discharge upstream of us. If treated this water is safe. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:41:11 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:44:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are the only company that removes the pharmaceuticals right now as far as I know. That's the issue, the organisms and virus are easy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I believe all future water plants should be built beside or as close to as possible to the sewer plants. The sewer plants effluent line should be pipped straight to the water plant for use. We have the technology (have actually had it for years) to do this safety. Especially drout prone areas ... this would be a great help. It is such a waste on both ends, it would cut down on the water we pull from the earth. I believe another good idea would be for the states along the coasts to use sea water for drinking water. I mean fuck all the global warming folks say the oceans are rising so kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I assume the age and tech/type of treatment used by any given plant will affect this. Primary/secondary clarifies w/aeration basins and final treatment has to produce a cleaner product vs ponds with floating aeration motors that mix/propeller the shit out of the water... |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 2:46:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Q: And just where does all that sidewalk shit go with the first rain? A: Into the nearest river, stream or creek. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
CA could save even more water by encouraging people to emulate more enlightened cultures such as India. Instead of using so much water to carry away human waste from indoor toilets, Californians should be encouraged to just go outside and shit on the sidewalks, beaches, rail lines, etc., like the Indians do. CA has apparently already made a good start on this idea in San Francisco, LA, San Diego where legions of homeless relieve themselves whenever and where ever the urge strikes. A: Into the nearest river, stream or creek. 
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:26:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryMmmm. Metamucil.
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:29:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Short of anything that went into outerspace, this planet has the same amount of water on it that it did from day one. Jeeez Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I believe all future water plants should be built beside or as close to as possible to the sewer plants. The sewer plants effluent line should be pipped straight to the water plant for use. We have the technology (have actually had it for years) to do this safety. Especially drout prone areas ... this would be a great help. It is such a waste on both ends, it would cut down on the water we pull from the earth. I believe another good idea would be for the states along the coasts to use sea water for drinking water. I mean fuck all the global warming folks say the oceans are rising so kill 2 birds with 1 stone. In states like Cali you can't water your lawn because of water shortages ... this would help with issues like that. Another option would be to pump all the grey water from the sewer plants straight out to all the farms for water usage on crops, etc. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:32:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just the building and running a desal plant is really expensive and they can't compete in costs vs treated or reservoir water. Several places that built them during droughts shut them down long-term when the droughts ended. Lot of money to put up to shutter them a few years later. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I believe all future water plants should be built beside or as close to as possible to the sewer plants. The sewer plants effluent line should be pipped straight to the water plant for use. We have the technology (have actually had it for years) to do this safety. Especially drout prone areas ... this would be a great help. It is such a waste on both ends, it would cut down on the water we pull from the earth. I believe another good idea would be for the states along the coasts to use sea water for drinking water. I mean fuck all the global warming folks say the oceans are rising so kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Several places that built them during droughts shut them down long-term when the droughts ended. Lot of money to put up to shutter them a few years later. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:34:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't wait for 30 years to pass and the infrastructure to fail because it was never properly maintained or replaced. "Oh it's perfectly safe to drink shit water".....Uh huh, as long as EVERYTHING IS DONE EXACTLY RIGHT, all procedures are followed and the equipment is working as it should.....like in Flint, Michigan and the Oroville Dam..... Enjoy your shit water. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:34:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which company? |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:49:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know if you have a septic and a well you're pretty much drinking and cooking and bathing with recycled gray water. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 3:58:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong. At least with modern cased wells. Septic is 2-5ft deep, The well on the last house I built was 330ft deep. Also, if you are in an area of Karst topography, then a deep well can be surface influenced since there are lots of cracks and holes through what would be the confining layers. Secondly, wells deteriorate over time, so a well that was once working fine, can rust through at the casing near the surface and begin letting contaminated surface water in. Or sometimes people hit them with lawn mowers and break the casing or pull it away from the bore hole, leaving a space where contaminated surface water can enter the well. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:05:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
California to add recycled sewer water to the state reservoirs California’s water regulation agency approved new measures Tuesday that will allow recycled water – water that once ran through the sewers – to be added to the state’s reservoirs, The San Francisco Chronicle reported.
The new rules are expected to be implemented by 2023. "This is a type of indirect potable use — it's not treated recycle water that goes directly to someone's house," said Miryam Barajas at the Water Board. "It's highly treated." She says the new regulations could potentially affect all 36 of California’s reservoirs that serve as the main source of the state’s municipal drinking water. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:09:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All water is recycled water. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:15:56 PM EDT
[#24]
some...interesting...responses in this thread.
all water is recycled. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:21:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Good thinking. They should have been doing this for years. The water we dump back into rivers is a process away from being potable. No reason to build 2 plants like we do.
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:22:09 PM EDT
[#26]
My thoughts on California: They can eat shit. Well, I guess drinking it will have to do
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:28:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Flints water was safe. It was their bad pipe system that was not. The treated water killed the algae scum covering the lead pipes. And the main reason they had to treat their water was due to the high rate of people not paying their municipal bills and being forced to continue providing services. Flint happened due to three things only: 1. Criminal negligence 2. Falsifying or not doing the required testing in the first place to put corrosion control methods in place. 3. Not performing the 90th Percentile testing at the resting taps as specified, or falsifying those results. I know the regs well. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:35:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Everything with a municipal sewage treatment plant is fine and dandy until there is a big rain storm and the sewage plant operators have to bypass treatment and discharge untreated raw sewage directly into the receiving waters in order to prevent the treatment plant from flooding and knocking it out of commission. Shit happens all the time.
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Posted: 3/8/2018 4:58:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything with a municipal sewage treatment plant is fine and dandy until there is a big rain storm and the sewage plant operators have to bypass treatment and discharge untreated raw sewage directly into the receiving waters in order to prevent the treatment plant from flooding and knocking it out of commission. Shit happens all the time. I ran two and consulted on 11 others. Never once. Yes, I know there are plants that can not handle some flows due to large weather events and combined stormwater issues that are not separated, even though there's been a lot of ongoing work to change that. And yes, there's a lot of municipalities and private plants that are near capacities that see some surges, but it's not "All the time". |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:03:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything with a municipal sewage treatment plant is fine and dandy until there is a big rain storm and the sewage plant operators have to bypass treatment and discharge untreated raw sewage directly into the receiving waters in order to prevent the treatment plant from flooding and knocking it out of commission. Shit happens all the time. The worst thing I ever saw happen when working at a couple of wastewater plants: people dumping chemicals into manholes or down the drain. We had a couple of such instances, one was thought to be some trucker dumping a tankful into the sewers in the middle of the night. Came into work in the morning to a really awful chemical smell. Whatever it was, it killed the biomass of our treatment process, which then wound up going downstream. We had to run many tanker trucks full of activated sludge from another plant in the area and dump it into our system to try to restart our biomass. It was a huge mess. I'm sure the trucker who dumped into our system would have faced major jail time if caught, but he never was. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:07:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Does it come with a warning that says it contains chemicals known by the state of California to cause cancer???
Now it's official... |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:08:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "All the time"? I ran two and consulted on 11 others. Never once. Yes, I know there are plants that can not handle some flows due to large weather events and combined stormwater issues that are not separated, even though there's been a lot of ongoing work to change that. And yes, there's a lot of municipalities and private plants that are near capacities that see some surges, but it's not "All the time". Sure "All the time" was an attempt at being facetious and humorous. But I (20 years in the industry) find it hard to believe you've never had a sewage overflow. You must have had one heck of an I/I program in place or brand new systems. You also get overflow from pump stations in the collection system that overflow raw sewage into a watershed or drinking water reservoir before it even gets to the sewage plant. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:10:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Runoff is not allowed into municipal sewage systems here. Runoff goes directly into the rivers. But, the problem comes from what is called "infiltration and inflow" into the sanitary collection system. The rain water runs into the sewage system through the manholes and other leaks in the system. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:15:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With all the pharmaceuticals in wastewater I'm surprised they would want to put this in the ground. At least a large portion of pharmaceuticals and endocrine disruptors will degrade within days due to solar radiation and biological processes. There will be exponentially less natural attenuation in the ground |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:28:27 PM EDT
[#35]
The "shithole" moniker is now literal
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:29:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What Class operators license did you hold? Sure "All the time" was an attempt at being facetious and humorous. But I (20 years in the industry) find it hard to believe you've never had a sewage overflow. You must have had one heck of an I/I program in place or brand new systems. You also get overflow from pump stations in the collection system that overflow raw sewage into a watershed or drinking water reservoir before it even gets to the sewage plant. Ran plants of all kinds. Everything from vacuum assist sludge beds to the first SBR's that made it over to the US to plants using traveling sand filtration and discharging to Class A trout streams. very stringent. About 20 years. Also ran my own consulting business and trained operators. I/I was key. Many monitoring programs and I also had the luxury of doing the construction management of the collection systems and checked all grouting. Many of our plants were not municipal and smaller. All but two were mostly gravity fed., so pump stations weren't an issue (5 in all). Another thing I didn't have to deal with was the fact that many were private systems, so it was cheaper than using state and federal $ to build them, which gave us $ we needed for any improvements. The size, terrain, placement and funding were key issues for us. You have 20 years in? Cool. You would appreciate this..... I had a great little plant, worked off of two pumps and was using wooden tanks! There was a fiberglass Parshall flume at the end of the process and the discharge it was permitted for......just ran out into the woods and down the side of a deep ravine 300 yds away. The water would come out and just soak away on and into the side of the mountain under the leaves. And the test results for the product were very impressive. So I got to play with the newest and oldest tech out there.
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:33:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Up to a B license. Sub classes 1,2, 3 and 5 Ran plants of all kinds. Everything from vacuum assist sludge beds to the first SBR's that made it over to the US to plants using traveling sand filtration and discharging to Class A trout streams. very stringent. About 20 years. Also ran my own consulting business and trained operators. I/I was key. Many monitoring programs and I also had the luxury of doing the construction management of the collection systems and checked all grouting. Many of our plants were not municipal and smaller. All but two were mostly gravity fed., so pump stations weren't an issue (5 in all). Another thing I didn't have to deal with was the fact that many were private systems, so it was cheaper than using state and federal $ to build them, which gave us $ we needed for any improvements. The size, terrain, placement and funding were key issues for us. You have 20 years in? Cool. You would appreciate this..... I had a great little plant, worked off of two pumps and was using wooden tanks! There was a fiberglass Parshall flume at the end of the process and the discharge it was permitted for......just ran out into the woods and down the side of a deep ravine 300 yds away. The water would come out and just soak away on and into the side of the mountain under the leaves. And the test results for the product were very impressive. So I got to play with the newest and oldest tech out there. But when you're talking municipal wastewater treatment plants in the realm of 200 MGD capacity, they have hard time during these freak huge rain events. Also, sometimes the operators just plain fuck up (usually night shift) and let a little burp through here and there without telling anyone. And the pumps in pump stations just fail on their own too sometimes and overflow during a drought. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:43:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The little package plants are fun and I agree they can be pretty reliable. But when you're talking municipal wastewater treatment plants in the realm of 200 MGD capacity, they have hard time during these freak huge rain events. Also, sometimes the operators just plain fuck up (usually night shift) and let a little burp through here and there without telling anyone. And the pumps in pump stations just fail on their own too sometimes and overflow during a drought. And some of our "Package Plants" were actually more "Modular plants" up to 3/4 mil a day (Clow/Purestream) |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 5:59:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This type of process is not uncommon. City A discharges treated sewer water into river. Some miles downstream City B pulls river water into water plant, treats it, then sends it straight to your kitchen.  
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Posted: 3/8/2018 6:02:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. I have toured large municipal systems. I can see how it would happen and I'm sure in cases, it does. The biggest I consulted on was municipal at 2.3 mil a day, storm water already separated. And some of our "Package Plants" were actually more "Modular plants" up to 3/4 mil a day (Clow/Purestream) They also like their water towers extra high for increased water pressure to their firehoses for riot control. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 6:49:02 PM EDT
[#41]
We have no shortage of water. We have a shortage of cheap water in some/many locations with large populations.
The solution is simple - increase the price of water. Significantly. People have no economic incentive to preserve or save what they believe to be almost free. The increased cost will permit the wider spread use of things like desal plans. It will also limit the economic waste of using millions upon millions of gallons of "free" water to cultivate crops in basically deserts. Just the change in watering patterns for residential yards would save huge amounts of water. But, as long as its basically free, people just keep consuming. Ultimately, I think we should privatize water just like electrical service. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 6:58:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ever consulted on a sewage plant for a prison? You have to put a macerator or commutator like a Muffin Monster up front and use grinder pumps because of all the stuff they like the flush down the toilets. They also like their water towers extra high for increased water pressure to their firehoses for riot control. We cracked up just a bit when we figured what they made. A.W.D. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 7:25:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been telling CA to eat shit for years. Looks like they're finally going to do it 
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Posted: 3/8/2018 8:16:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever consulted on a sewage plant for a prison? You have to put a macerator or commutator like a Muffin Monster up front and use grinder pumps because of all the stuff they like the flush down the toilets. They also like their water towers extra high for increased water pressure to their firehoses for riot control. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Agreed. I have toured large municipal systems. I can see how it would happen and I'm sure in cases, it does. The biggest I consulted on was municipal at 2.3 mil a day, storm water already separated. And some of our "Package Plants" were actually more "Modular plants" up to 3/4 mil a day (Clow/Purestream) They also like their water towers extra high for increased water pressure to their firehoses for riot control. As for the water towers, I would make them high enough to require pressure reducers, beef up the distribution system and in the case of riots, have electric motors that open up the pressure control zones 
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Posted: 3/8/2018 8:21:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
some...interesting...responses in this thread. all water is recycled. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 8:41:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe all future water plants should be built beside or as close to as possible to the sewer plants. The sewer plants effluent line should be pipped straight to the water plant for use. We have the technology (have actually had it for years) to do this safety. Especially drout prone areas ... this would be a great help. It is such a waste on both ends, it would cut down on the water we pull from the earth. I believe another good idea would be for the states along the coasts to use sea water for drinking water. I mean fuck all the global warming folks say the oceans are rising so kill 2 birds with 1 stone. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 8:44:49 PM EDT
[#47]
I only drink bottled water anyways. Only time I use the tap water is for washing dishes. So I'll just be eating off of shitty plates. Lol
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Posted: 3/8/2018 8:46:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Shit in your own nest, or reservoir.
State is going brown anyway and is the future revealed, what I heard. |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 8:51:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I only drink bottled water anyways. Only time I use the tap water is for washing dishes. So I'll just be eating off of shitty plates. Lol |
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Posted: 3/8/2018 9:04:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you shower in? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I only drink bottled water anyways. Only time I use the tap water is for washing dishes. So I'll just be eating off of shitty plates. Lol
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