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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:50:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would NYC actually abide a Supreme Court decision? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:55:51 AM EDT
[#2]
I see this as an easy win but dont think its impact will be wide reaching, the the 10,000 ft view, the SC doesnt like to make giant changes.
So maybe transportation laws are deem unconstitutional and kind of imply possession outside the home is ok. then that could be used to attach may issue |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:01:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @StevenH A rather well-informed lawyer on TTAG (who correctly called the cert grant for this particular case, last year) theorizes that the decision will be a narrow one, but will apply blanket "strict scrutiny" to 2A cases. Many lower court decisions on 2A restrictions won't stand up to the higher level of scrutiny, and will have to be reversed. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:01:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case and weigh in if that is an acceptable restriction within the 2A, the commerce clause of the constitution, and the right to travel. This is the first major 2A case to reach the merits stage since McDonald in 2010, Caetano had a summary disposition, so if they side with NYSRPA instead of NYC, it would instantly establish precedent across the country for CA, MD, NJ, etc to abide by. Kharn Hopefully this will be the first crack in the wall. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:03:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:04:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Assuming a positive outcome this could be a big win for people in NJ. While the transportation rules aren't as bad as NYC they are very restrictive as well. In NJ it is a crime to take a handgun from your home to a hotel, friends house, or vacation home for example. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:04:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Even when I was a cop going to NH (flew into Albany), my buddy who was (now ret.) a VT cop and ex-NYPD told me not to bring a handgun. NY laws. This was pre-Leosa days.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:06:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@StevenH A rather well-informed lawyer on TTAG (who correctly called the cert grant for this particular case, last year) theorizes that the decision will be a narrow one, but will apply blanket "strict scrutiny" to 2A cases. Many lower court decisions on 2A restrictions won't stand up to the higher level of scrutiny, and will have to be reversed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is good news. It’s going to be tough waiting until October. Not sure how a win helps those in other states though. A rather well-informed lawyer on TTAG (who correctly called the cert grant for this particular case, last year) theorizes that the decision will be a narrow one, but will apply blanket "strict scrutiny" to 2A cases. Many lower court decisions on 2A restrictions won't stand up to the higher level of scrutiny, and will have to be reversed. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:07:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:the Commerce Clause If the Framers had meant the federal government can regulate anything anywhere they would have come out and said it ... not used the commerce clause. The federal government slipped a big restriction on their power there. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:08:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that happens it would be as important as the Heller decision, no? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:09:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Good. I'm skeptical of Roberts on the 2nd, but I see him at least going with a narrow ruling to strike this infringement down as written
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:10:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would NYC actually abide a Supreme Court decision? Overnight they implement a restriction but it takes years to follow the court's mandate to undo them ... then just rewrite the bull shit and enact it. It then takes millions of dollars and years to overthrow the next law. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:11:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @StevenH A rather well-informed lawyer on TTAG (who correctly called the cert grant for this particular case, last year) theorizes that the decision will be a narrow one, but will apply blanket "strict scrutiny" to 2A cases. Many lower court decisions on 2A restrictions won't stand up to the higher level of scrutiny, and will have to be reversed. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:12:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that's true that's amazing. California has nothing close to that nonsense (yet). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Assuming a positive outcome this could be a big win for people in NJ. While the transportation rules aren't as bad as NYC they are very restrictive as well. In NJ it is a crime to take a handgun from your home to a hotel, friends house, or vacation home for example. Not 100% sure though. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:13:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Hey everyone...I know NYC's bullshit gun laws almost perfectly. Unfortunately.
This is MUCH bigger than most people think...here is why... In NY (state and city), if you have a pistol permit, it is actually a CARRY PERMIT. Even if the county restricts it to only "allowing" target shooting/hunting...it is still legally a CARRY PERMIT. They can NOT arrest you for carrying a loaded handgun if you have a pistol permit in NY. BUT, NYC didn't want to have any part of that...so what they do is, they issue the ONLY other kind if pistol permit in NYS law...it is called a PREMISE ONLY permit. Legally, it ONLY allows one to possess the pistol at the address listed on the permit. No target shooting, no hunting, no gun shop repair. Nothing. Nada. But NYC figures it will only issue people this bullshit PREMISE only permit, and ILLEGALLY (against NY law), "allow" people to target shoot and hunt. NYC even got a liberal activist judge to go along with this saying it was OK. When it is not. The reason NYC does NOT allow people to transport their PREMISE PERMIT ONLY handguns out of NYC is actually valid, because technically, a NYS trooper or town cop COULD arrest them for possessing a handgun outside of the address on their PREMISE ONLY permit. But if you stay in NYC to target shoot, no NYPD officer would arrest you. But a NYS trooper that is visiting NYC could still arrest you in NYC believe it or not! So...what does this mean? If SCOTUS says this practice is bullshit, NYC will HAVE to once again start issuing TARGET/HUNTING pistol permits, which again, are legally FULL CARRY permits. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:14:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC, registered assault weapons have some similar travel and use restrictions. Not 100% sure though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Assuming a positive outcome this could be a big win for people in NJ. While the transportation rules aren't as bad as NYC they are very restrictive as well. In NJ it is a crime to take a handgun from your home to a hotel, friends house, or vacation home for example. Not 100% sure though. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:16:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck that bull shit bull shit. If the Framers had meant the federal government can regulate anything anywhere they would have come out and said it ... not used the commerce clause. The federal government slipped a big restriction on their power there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:the Commerce Clause If the Framers had meant the federal government can regulate anything anywhere they would have come out and said it ... not used the commerce clause. The federal government slipped a big restriction on their power there. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:17:28 PM EDT
[#18]
I fucking hate NYC. I loathe going there anymore, even to see family. I hope SCOTUS rips that cesspool of subhumanity (I think I just made up a new word!) a new asshole. I have a NYS handgun license which is unrestricted and good for concealed carry anywhere and anytime in New York but for the 5 boroughs of that total shithole city. I'd love to see the smackdown on them so that state licenses are good there too. If NYC doesn't want to be in NYS then it's more than welcome to GTFO.
FUBD (Fuck You Bill Deblasio) |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:17:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need a magazine capacity and an "assault weapon" case. After ginsburg dies and we get another conservative hopefully we'll get some useful cases. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:19:24 PM EDT
[#20]
We will find out soon enough if the last 2 SC picks were good. Fingers crossed.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:22:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So...what does this mean? If SCOTUS says this practice is bullshit, NYC will HAVE to once again start issuing TARGET/HUNTING pistol permits, which again, are legally FULL CARRY permits. @Mech2007 |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:24:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that happens it would be as important as the Heller decision, no? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: @StevenH A rather well-informed lawyer on TTAG (who correctly called the cert grant for this particular case, last year) theorizes that the decision will be a narrow one, but will apply blanket "strict scrutiny" to 2A cases. Many lower court decisions on 2A restrictions won't stand up to the higher level of scrutiny, and will have to be reversed. This would give Heller some teeth, strict scrutiny is the highest standard of review. A SC ruling applying strict Constitutional scrutiny to anything related to the 2A could open the door to national reciprocity, Constitutional carry, rolling back the NFA, etc... |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:25:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Would NYC actually abide a Supreme Court decision? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:28:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would NYC actually abide a Supreme Court decision? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:29:13 PM EDT
[#25]
I understand this is a challenge to the law as being prima facie unconstitutional. There is also a Supremacy Clause argument that FOPA overruled the City's ban on transport. They should have presented that question as well.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:32:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not according to my old NY county. @Mech2007 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So...what does this mean? If SCOTUS says this practice is bullshit, NYC will HAVE to once again start issuing TARGET/HUNTING pistol permits, which again, are legally FULL CARRY permits. @Mech2007 |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:41:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had no idea states limited such things... |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:43:31 PM EDT
[#28]
I'll be Negative Nancy: Heller and McDonald didn't do anything meaningful for NYC subjects,this is very unlikely to do much either. However,it's a low hanging gun case that won't matter much either way but at least allows them to address firearms so they can move on to other things for the next X years rather than do something that would make drastic changes for everyone.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:43:55 PM EDT
[#29]
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though.
The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:44:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How far reaching could this be? Could it rule that all restrictions on transport and where you can go are unconstitutional? Could it prohibit private business from being "no guns allowed" areas? How about federal facilities? Could it even touch how you transport, and allow constitutional concealed and open carry? No. No. Very fuck no. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:46:39 PM EDT
[#31]
The SCOTUS will rule its unconstitutional and tell NY to overturn the law. NY will laugh in communist and tell SCOTUS to FOAD and law will stand. Then as punishment NY will pass more unconstitutional laws to punish law abiding citizens.
In the case of NJ just replace NY with NJ and it’ll be the same. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:49:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey everyone...I know NYC's bullshit gun laws almost perfectly. Unfortunately. This is MUCH bigger than most people think...here is why... In NY (state and city), if you have a pistol permit, it is actually a CARRY PERMIT. Even if the county restricts it to only "allowing" target shooting/hunting...it is still legally a CARRY PERMIT. NYS PENAL LAW 400 AND 265 have specific exemptions for NYC. I hope I am wrong. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:50:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case and weigh in if that is an acceptable restriction within the 2A, the commerce clause of the constitution, and the right to travel. This is the first major 2A case to reach the merits stage since McDonald in 2010, Caetano had a summary disposition, so if they side with NYSRPA instead of NYC, it would instantly establish precedent across the country for CA, MD, NJ, etc to abide by. Kharn However, it seems to me this could also have implications for CCW. In fact the court could move farther that way with respect to CCW if it wanted to. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:52:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess you're right, but I still think ccw is stupid. My home state is constitutional carry and that's REALLY how the federal constitution is too its just ignored  Most of the constitutional carry states started as shall issue. I think Vermont is the exception. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:54:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Perhaps, if the USSC gives NYC a good solid kick in the nuts, RBG will stroke out. I hate wishing harm to the old girl - I’d much prefer she retire - but the current political has me worried.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:55:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck that bull shit bull shit. If the Framers had meant the federal government can regulate anything anywhere they would have come out and said it ... not used the commerce clause. The federal government slipped a big restriction on their power there. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:56:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey everyone...I know NYC's bullshit gun laws almost perfectly. Unfortunately. This is MUCH bigger than most people think...here is why... In NY (state and city), if you have a pistol permit, it is actually a CARRY PERMIT. Even if the county restricts it to only "allowing" target shooting/hunting...it is still legally a CARRY PERMIT. They can NOT arrest you for carrying a loaded handgun if you have a pistol permit in NY. BUT, NYC didn't want to have any part of that...so what they do is, they issue the ONLY other kind if pistol permit in NYS law...it is called a PREMISE ONLY permit. Legally, it ONLY allows one to possess the pistol at the address listed on the permit. No target shooting, no hunting, no gun shop repair. Nothing. Nada. But NYC figures it will only issue people this bullshit PREMISE only permit, and ILLEGALLY (against NY law), "allow" people to target shoot and hunt. NYC even got a liberal activist judge to go along with this saying it was OK. When it is not. The reason NYC does NOT allow people to transport their PREMISE PERMIT ONLY handguns out of NYC is actually valid, because technically, a NYS trooper or town cop COULD arrest them for possessing a handgun outside of the address on their PREMISE ONLY permit. But if you stay in NYC to target shoot, no NYPD officer would arrest you. But a NYS trooper that is visiting NYC could still arrest you in NYC believe it or not! So...what does this mean? If SCOTUS says this practice is bullshit, NYC will HAVE to once again start issuing TARGET/HUNTING pistol permits, which again, are legally FULL CARRY permits. 
Looks like an email advert with the bolding |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:57:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In NY (state A Strict Scrutiny ruling would be great BUT that means all these past cases decided against us such as the SAFE Act, Sullivan Law and myriad of other bans will all have to start over at square one again with legal challenges. I guess it would be somewhere around 2030 before we would start seeing some reversals. Of course if the Democrat's maintain the House, take control of the Presidency and Senate in 2021, and carry out their desire to up the SCOTUS justice count to 18, then we will see it all fall apart rather quickly as nine new liberal justices are appointed. And as others have noted, NYC will ignore whatever ruling comes out or at least tweak it ever so slightly that it will take years to challenge it all over again. I've lived in New York State too long to have any optimism or hope these days. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:57:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At the moment, this type of transport isn't an issue in CA. However, it seems to me this could also have implications for CCW. In fact the court could move farther that way with respect to CCW if it wanted to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
NYC says you can't transport your pistol except from your domicile to their seven approved ranges, not even to other states, your upstate home, or to go hunting. The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case and weigh in if that is an acceptable restriction within the 2A, the commerce clause of the constitution, and the right to travel. This is the first major 2A case to reach the merits stage since McDonald in 2010, Caetano had a summary disposition, so if they side with NYSRPA instead of NYC, it would instantly establish precedent across the country for CA, MD, NJ, etc to abide by. Kharn However, it seems to me this could also have implications for CCW. In fact the court could move farther that way with respect to CCW if it wanted to. What will be interesting is how they do it (strict scrutiny?), and if they say things like "right to travel with a firearm" in the dicta, which opens the door for the NEXT case to be about the right to carry. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:58:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC, registered assault weapons have some similar travel and use restrictions. Not 100% sure though. AWs have to be locked up separate from their ammo during transport. Basically the same rules apply to AWs that apply to handguns. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:03:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Lol at acronyms that are meaningless to most of us.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:04:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not accurate Dave. NYS PENAL LAW 400 AND 265 have specific exemptions for NYC. I hope I am wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey everyone...I know NYC's bullshit gun laws almost perfectly. Unfortunately. This is MUCH bigger than most people think...here is why... In NY (state and city), if you have a pistol permit, it is actually a CARRY PERMIT. Even if the county restricts it to only "allowing" target shooting/hunting...it is still legally a CARRY PERMIT. NYS PENAL LAW 400 AND 265 have specific exemptions for NYC. I hope I am wrong. There are only 2 types (for civilian)...CARRY and PREMISE. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:04:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fucking hate NYC. I loathe going there anymore, even to see family. I hope SCOTUS rips that cesspool of subhumanity (I think I just made up a new word!) a new asshole. I have a NYS handgun license which is unrestricted and good for concealed carry anywhere and anytime in New York but for the 5 boroughs of that total shithole city. I'd love to see the smackdown on them so that state licenses are good there too. If NYC doesn't want to be in NYS then it's more than welcome to GTFO. FUBD (Fuck You Bill Deblasio) |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:05:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll be Negative Nancy: Heller and McDonald didn't do anything meaningful for NYC subjects,this is very unlikely to do much either. However,it's a low hanging gun case that won't matter much either way but at least allows them to address firearms so they can move on to other things for the next X years rather than do something that would make drastic changes for everyone. They didn't change much on their own, but they were a set up for future action. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:06:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see this as an easy win but dont think its impact will be wide reaching, the the 10,000 ft view, the SC doesnt like to make giant changes. So maybe transportation laws are deem unconstitutional and kind of imply possession outside the home is ok. then that could be used to attach may issue Depending on the wording of the ruling, it could be destructive to the left and set them back immensely right when we need it most. ETA: assuming the court slaps NYCs dick into the dirt. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:09:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Carry licenses currently issued in NYS feature the following disclaimer on the back.
 Attached FileSo you can legally carry all over the state until you get to NYC, where your statewide approved legal licensed conduct will get you cuffed and stuffed. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:11:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though. The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". I'm sure they're too busy trying to get pistol braces banned. If this case goes our way, will I be less "puckered asshole" driving through NYC?NJ going to and from SC/FL ? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:13:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association is the official NRA-affiliated State Association. I'm sure someone will come along and complain "where is the NRA?" though. The NRA operates behind the curtain so that local state residents can be front and center. It reduces the complaints that they have no standing or that it is "entities outside the state trying to control what happens in another state". Kharn |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:15:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see this as an easy win but dont think its impact will be wide reaching, the the 10,000 ft view, the SC doesnt like to make giant changes. So maybe transportation laws are deem unconstitutional and kind of imply possession outside the home is ok. then that could be used to attach may issue  or even 6-3.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:18:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After ginsburg dies and we get another conservative hopefully we'll get some useful cases. The 2cir's decision was against us -- they agreed with the district court that it was fine to limit the use of the guns to the seven approved NYC ranges. If Ginsburg is on the court, any one defection from the five "conservatives" would fuck us. If Ginsburg is incapacitated but still blocking a replacement, any one defection would result in a tie that would maintain the 2cir's ruling. |
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