FDA And the Opioid Crisis - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FDA And the Opioid Crisis (Page 2 of 6)

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:43:36 PM EDT

[#1]

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More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.

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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

It's worse then this even. My wife manages a neurosurgeon practice and pharmacy's are refusing to fill scripts even after surgeries as written by the Doc's.

My FIl who has been on opiates for over a decade due to 5 hip replacements and a knee replacement was cut cold turkey. He never abused them, never asked for more. They let him live a more normal life because I just saw him the other day and he is in tremendous amounts of pain. The doc said unless have cancer or on hospice you ain't getting narcotics.

That might encourage someone to start killin' folks he figures needs it.

Or make legit street addicts out of them.

More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.

And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:44:18 PM EDT

[#2]

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Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

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Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

What else should they tell them? The "opioid crisis" has little to do with chronic pain sufferers who are taking a medically prescribed treatment and much more to do with people who chose to illicitly inject street drugs like heroin and fentanyl which are being imported into the country by the container load. The vast majority of addicts nodding off in the street are not medically diagnosed with a chronic pain condition.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:45:49 PM EDT

[#3]

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And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

It's worse then this even. My wife manages a neurosurgeon practice and pharmacy's are refusing to fill scripts even after surgeries as written by the Doc's.

My FIl who has been on opiates for over a decade due to 5 hip replacements and a knee replacement was cut cold turkey. He never abused them, never asked for more. They let him live a more normal life because I just saw him the other day and he is in tremendous amounts of pain. The doc said unless have cancer or on hospice you ain't getting narcotics.

That might encourage someone to start killin' folks he figures needs it.

Or make legit street addicts out of them.

More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.

And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

Not junkies because had they been they wouldn't have stayed at the same or near same levels of intake for years. Junkies chase the high and euphoria, people in pain want pain relief and when they get told to F off sorry, what are the alternatives. Oh your bright idea of Phys rehab? yeah my FIL does that and it does dick.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:46:10 PM EDT

[#4]

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What else should they tell them? The "opioid crisis" has little to do with chronic pain sufferers who are taking a medically prescribed treatment and much more to do with people who chose to illicitly inject street drugs like heroin and fentanyl which are being imported into the country by the container load. The vast majority of addicts nodding off in the street are not medically diagnosed with a chronic pain condition.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

What else should they tell them? The "opioid crisis" has little to do with chronic pain sufferers who are taking a medically prescribed treatment and much more to do with people who chose to illicitly inject street drugs like heroin and fentanyl which are being imported into the country by the container load. The vast majority of addicts nodding off in the street are not medically diagnosed with a chronic pain condition.

There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:46:47 PM EDT

[#5]

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Not junkies because had they been they wouldn't have stayed at the same or near same levels of intake for years. Junkies chase the high and euphoria, people in pain want pain relief and when they get told to F off sorry, what are the alternatives. Oh your bright idea of Phys rehab? yeah my FIL does that and it does dick.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

It's worse then this even. My wife manages a neurosurgeon practice and pharmacy's are refusing to fill scripts even after surgeries as written by the Doc's.

My FIl who has been on opiates for over a decade due to 5 hip replacements and a knee replacement was cut cold turkey. He never abused them, never asked for more. They let him live a more normal life because I just saw him the other day and he is in tremendous amounts of pain. The doc said unless have cancer or on hospice you ain't getting narcotics.

That might encourage someone to start killin' folks he figures needs it.

Or make legit street addicts out of them.

More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.

And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

Not junkies because had they been they wouldn't have stayed at the same or near same levels of intake for years. Junkies chase the high and euphoria, people in pain want pain relief and when they get told to F off sorry, what are the alternatives. Oh your bright idea of Phys rehab? yeah my FIL does that and it does dick.

The majority of long term patients aren't remaining at the same level though, and they still experience chronic pain. We can all agree that it's a band aid at best.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:47:06 PM EDT

[#6]

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They are prescription drugs.

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Not a salient response.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:48:44 PM EDT

[#7]

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Keep reading. Addiction sure as shit isn't the answer, and to be honest, I don't know how you deal with the constipation anyway. Oh, more drugs. Really, I know the pain, the most embarrassing times in my life were either crawl to the bathroom in pain or piss the bed. It sucks.

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What if that pain never went away, and every alternative treatment failed.

Take opioids or kill yourself. What happens when those are the only two answers?

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:50:09 PM EDT

[#8]

I have someone really close to me that has been on them for more than 10 years! The dose has never increased and when taken, can actually get around without help.

You're living the lie that 60 minutes and the .Gov are feeding you!

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:50:42 PM EDT

[#9]

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There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?

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Your bias is clearly showing. You have had pain. You overcame it with alternative treatments, therefore NO ONE should ever need opioids.

You're trolling at this point.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:52:27 PM EDT

[#10]

60 Minutes?

Like when Alan Iverson said “practice, we talkin ‘bout practice”

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:53:07 PM EDT

[#11]

All the things Ridgerunner9876 said. I say the same.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:53:26 PM EDT

[#12]

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The majority of long term patients aren't remaining at the same level though, and they still experience chronic pain. We can all agree that it's a band aid at best.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

It's worse then this even. My wife manages a neurosurgeon practice and pharmacy's are refusing to fill scripts even after surgeries as written by the Doc's.

My FIl who has been on opiates for over a decade due to 5 hip replacements and a knee replacement was cut cold turkey. He never abused them, never asked for more. They let him live a more normal life because I just saw him the other day and he is in tremendous amounts of pain. The doc said unless have cancer or on hospice you ain't getting narcotics.

That might encourage someone to start killin' folks he figures needs it.

Or make legit street addicts out of them.

More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.

And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

Not junkies because had they been they wouldn't have stayed at the same or near same levels of intake for years. Junkies chase the high and euphoria, people in pain want pain relief and when they get told to F off sorry, what are the alternatives. Oh your bright idea of Phys rehab? yeah my FIL does that and it does dick.

The majority of long term patients aren't remaining at the same level though, and they still experience chronic pain. We can all agree that it's a band aid at best.

Actually if managed properly they do. Chronic pain isn't just getting better and going away. The thing with opiates and managing said pain is knowing painkillers don't kill all the pain but bring it down to manageable levels. Long term pain patients understand this. You will have good days and bad days, you take less on good days or even none if your pain that day is manageable. Just because someone has a pain med scrip doesn't mean they are eating them constantly. Some do, so because of that Fuck everybody?

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:53:49 PM EDT

[#13]

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I know that there are a lot of opioid users on this forum for long term chronic pain who feel as though they need their meds for every day functioning, which may very well be true, but that is a byproduct of using a drug which should not have been approved for long term use.

This was on 60 Minutes last night and the facts around the case are rather frank. The gist is that big Pharma bought their way in to the FDA and had the labeling changed from short term use to long term use, where there is no scientific testing or data to support the long term use of drugs like Oxycontin as being safe or effective. On the contrary, the testing has proven the exact opposite.

Is The FDA at Fault?

These lawsuits are quite different than the other class action lawsuits across the country in that it is going after the FDA, rather than just trying to get a payout from big Pharma.

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Sure, the government and 60 minutes knows what's best for everybody.

Wtf are you thinking? This should be between doctor and patient. Dirtbags will sue because their junkie relatives od. Fda and others have set dangerous precedent by shunning a legitimate drug that helps patients.

I don't care what "studies" you quote, opioids have been used for over two millennia as effective painkillers. To declare that they are not effective is fitting right in with the propaganda. I have seen it's effects, both good and bad. The good by far outweighs the bad both in long term and short term. This whole "issue" is insanity.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:53:51 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

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This.

All of you drug warriors are no different than Code Pink or Moms Demand Action.

But hey, as long as your feels are all in order and you think that you are doing something for the children that's all that matters right?

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:54:16 PM EDT

[#15]

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So do you prefer to take drugs over exploring other options? Which other options have you explored? You are extremely defensive about having your drugs taken away, and again, I understand it with pain management.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

You don't think doctors know what opioids do to a person before the government telling them? LOL

You still haven't given your alternative to treatment of permanent and severe pain.

This is right up there with African countries refusing GMO corn for their starving masses because someone may get sick.

Keep reading. Addiction sure as shit isn't the answer, and to be honest, I don't know how you deal with the constipation anyway. Oh, more drugs. Really, I know the pain, the most embarrassing times in my life were either crawl to the bathroom in pain or piss the bed. It sucks.

Just so long as you admit you wish to enforce your ideals and values on everyone else because of your experiences and opinions.

Reminds me of a couple other groups we deal with.

So do you prefer to take drugs over exploring other options? Which other options have you explored? You are extremely defensive about having your drugs taken away, and again, I understand it with pain management.

I'm in no pain at all. Hardest drugs I take are coffee and a little whisky.

I'm extremely defensive about do gooders using the guns of the government to enforce their beliefs on me if at some point in the future I find myself in debilitating pain.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:54:56 PM EDT

[#16]

It's really amazing that anybody survived in the old days when you used to be able to buy opiates over the counter...

Yes, there are addicts and there always will be, in one form or another. More restrictions and regulations will not prevent this, aside from creating a greater demand on the black market.

In a way, it's very similar to gun control. I would guess that the vast majority of people take their medicine as prescribed and don't abuse it, but those law abiding citizens are essentially being punished because of the minority that do abuse prescription medication. Meanwhile, those that abuse opioids will continue to do so regardless of law, and may even look to worse alternatives if they are more readily available.

It's just like all of the "Gun Free Zone" stickers... If we only had signs saying "No Abusing Prescription Drugs" and maybe a few more laws "for the children", we'll no longer have any prescription drug abuse.

Why punish and restrict those that need and use their medication responsibly, just because of the the few that abuse it? Isn't this the same argument used to promote gun control?

Fwiw, I do not have a dog in this fight, but the similarity to gun control is rather alarming.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:56:17 PM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:
Your bias is clearly showing. You have had pain. You overcame it with alternative treatments, therefore NO ONE should ever need opioids.

You're trolling at this point.

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Quoted:

There are a handful of people in this thread talking about personally needing their pain meds every day. Ever hear of the term functioning alcoholic?

Your bias is clearly showing. You have had pain. You overcame it with alternative treatments, therefore NO ONE should ever need opioids.

You're trolling at this point.

NEVER have I stated that "NO ONE" should ever need opioids. That's absolutely false and I am in complete disagreement as I have personally used them for short term.

Posted: 2/25/2019 1:57:26 PM EDT

[#18]

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Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

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Yeah. I don't get this "studies say." Who gives a fuck. Ask the patient if it works. If it doesn't, change to something that does. "Studies say" marijuana doesn't have any benefits for any conditions, patients disagree.

Studies are fine before a drug is available to attempt to ascertain whether it's safe enough and patent enough in it's intended use to release. Once it's released, individual patients should become the primary thing a doctor studies.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:00:08 PM EDT

[#19]

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Keep reading. Addiction sure as shit isn't the answer, and to be honest, I don't know how you deal with the constipation anyway. Oh, more drugs. Really, I know the pain, the most embarrassing times in my life were either crawl to the bathroom in pain or piss the bed. It sucks.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

Dr's prescribe them based on the labeling though, so as noted with posters above, they are told, "keep shoveling these pills in your mouth".

You don't think doctors know what opioids do to a person before the government telling them? LOL

You still haven't given your alternative to treatment of permanent and severe pain.

This is right up there with African countries refusing GMO corn for their starving masses because someone may get sick.

Keep reading. Addiction sure as shit isn't the answer, and to be honest, I don't know how you deal with the constipation anyway. Oh, more drugs. Really, I know the pain, the most embarrassing times in my life were either crawl to the bathroom in pain or piss the bed. It sucks.

So because you are perfectly happy living in agonizing, constant pain you think it's ok to force everyone else to as well?

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:00:33 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
lol

The opiod crisis, just like the obesity crisis, is the result of human nature, nothing else. It's not the government's "fault" it's not the FDA's "fault" - it the fault of peoples' choices.

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Contrast historical obesity rates with corn imports. Individual decisions occur inside an environment of incentives organizations often modify. Organizations kiting customers or externalizing blame from org charts onto individuals with free will maximalism aren't new.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:01:47 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

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You just described my Dads condition almost exactly. He’s in excruciating pain almost every day.

He’s 73 and in pain with his only option being ibuprofen... I don’t give a fuck if it’s addictive, give him fucking heroin or raw opium if it helps because right now he has zero quality of life.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:04:14 PM EDT

[#22]

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So do you prefer to take drugs over exploring other options? Which other options have you explored? You are extremely defensive about having your drugs taken away, and again, I understand it with pain management.

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Why do you prefer firearms for self defense? Which other options have you explored?

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:06:53 PM EDT

[#23]

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I'm trying to change it to jesus riding a dinosaur but it keeps showing up as my dog on my computer. What does it show now?

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A black square, and it was a white Jesus on a dinosaur for one post. Figure it out already, I will have to take a pill to deal with it

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:07:56 PM EDT

[#24]

Democrats taking money for personal gain while hurting the people? I would have Never thought that Democrats would have done that.[/sarcasm]

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:07:57 PM EDT

[#25]

Wasn't the producer sexy harassing all the male staff?

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:10:48 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
It's really amazing that anybody survived in the old days when you used to be able to buy opiates over the counter...

Yes, there are addicts and there always will be, in one form or another. More restrictions and regulations will not prevent this, aside from creating a greater demand on the black market.

In a way, it's very similar to gun control. I would guess that the vast majority of people take their medicine as prescribed and don't abuse it, but those law abiding citizens are essentially being punished because of the minority that do abuse prescription medication. Meanwhile, those that abuse opioids will continue to do so regardless of law, and may even look to worse alternatives if they are more readily available.

It's just like all of the "Gun Free Zone" stickers... If we only had signs saying "No Abusing Prescription Drugs" and maybe a few more laws "for the children", we'll no longer have any prescription drug abuse.

Why punish and restrict those that need and use their medication responsibly, just because of the the few that abuse it? Isn't this the same argument used to promote gun control?

Fwiw, I do not have a dog in this fight, but the similarity to gun control is rather alarming.

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Spot on, we banned alcohol once upon a time in this country, it ushered in the era of Big Gangster and ultimately led directly to NFA 34. You cannot legislate morality and people will always find a way to procure what they want. Soviet Union era Russians managed to get blue jeans and Western albums. I live in a very rural area but I have no doubts that if I set my mind to it, I could about any kind of drug I wanted to buy, legal or illegal. Somehow that makes me the problem?

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:12:35 PM EDT

[#27]

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Why do you prefer firearms for self defense? Which other options have you explored?

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Quoted:

So do you prefer to take drugs over exploring other options? Which other options have you explored? You are extremely defensive about having your drugs taken away, and again, I understand it with pain management.

Why do you prefer firearms for self defense? Which other options have you explored?

I'm not really sure that there is any parallel to be made. Firearms are a last resort. Avoidance, then deescalation would be the first lines of self defense. I can make an exact parallel to that statement though in regards to my herniated discs. I no longer do twisting motions while carrying heavy loads, and I stretch and do core strength exercises every day. If I start getting sore, I then take ibuprofen for the day. This practice has helped me to avoid another major incident/flare up which would force me to take steroids. If I let it get past the point of steroids, which I have skipped over in the past, that means that I'm taking pain killers and muscle relaxers.

Does that answer your question? It still isn't going to help with those suffering long term injuries where surgery is often the answer. As far as ineffective surgery or where surgery is not a viable option, there needs to be some leeway on pain management, while understanding that long term use is not safe.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:14:06 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

View Quote

No kidding.

The "opioid crisis" will simply give us more alcoholics and people with livers and kidneys destroyed by high doses of Tylenol and Advil.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:14:25 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm not really sure that there is any parallel to be made. Firearms are a last resort. Avoidance, then deescalation would be the first lines of self defense. I can make an exact parallel to that statement though in regards to my herniated discs. I no longer do twisting motions while carrying heavy loads, and I stretch and do core strength exercises every day. If I start getting sore, I then take ibuprofen for the day. This practice has helped me to avoid another major incident/flare up which would force me to take steroids. If I let it get past the point of steroids, which I have skipped over in the past, that means that I'm taking pain killers and muscle relaxers.

Does that answer your question? It still isn't going to help with those suffering long term injuries where surgery is often the answer. As far as ineffective surgery or where surgery is not a viable option, there needs to be some leeway on pain management, while understanding that long term use is not safe.

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Only in part.

Now what do you think about the people who want to remove your ability to use a firearm as a last resort? I can draw a direct parallel too.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:14:54 PM EDT

[#30]

Acknowledging that the opiate crisis exists has been one of the healthiest things for this country because it has exposed how many boomers are pillheads. Cutting off their drugs is getting to be almost as bad as threatening to cut Social Security.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:15:37 PM EDT

[#31]

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Only in part.

Now what do you think about the people who want to remove your ability to use a firearm as a last resort? I can draw a direct parallel too.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm not really sure that there is any parallel to be made. Firearms are a last resort. Avoidance, then deescalation would be the first lines of self defense. I can make an exact parallel to that statement though in regards to my herniated discs. I no longer do twisting motions while carrying heavy loads, and I stretch and do core strength exercises every day. If I start getting sore, I then take ibuprofen for the day. This practice has helped me to avoid another major incident/flare up which would force me to take steroids. If I let it get past the point of steroids, which I have skipped over in the past, that means that I'm taking pain killers and muscle relaxers.

Does that answer your question? It still isn't going to help with those suffering long term injuries where surgery is often the answer. As far as ineffective surgery or where surgery is not a viable option, there needs to be some leeway on pain management, while understanding that long term use is not safe.

Only in part.

Now what do you think about the people who want to remove your ability to use a firearm as a last resort? I can draw a direct parallel too.

Nobody wants to completely remove opioids though (well I'm sure there are some that do, but that is not what this lawsuit pertains to).

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:18:13 PM EDT

[#32]

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Nobody wants to completely remove opioids though (well I'm sure there are some that do, but that is not what this lawsuit pertains to).

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm not really sure that there is any parallel to be made. Firearms are a last resort. Avoidance, then deescalation would be the first lines of self defense. I can make an exact parallel to that statement though in regards to my herniated discs. I no longer do twisting motions while carrying heavy loads, and I stretch and do core strength exercises every day. If I start getting sore, I then take ibuprofen for the day. This practice has helped me to avoid another major incident/flare up which would force me to take steroids. If I let it get past the point of steroids, which I have skipped over in the past, that means that I'm taking pain killers and muscle relaxers.

Does that answer your question? It still isn't going to help with those suffering long term injuries where surgery is often the answer. As far as ineffective surgery or where surgery is not a viable option, there needs to be some leeway on pain management, while understanding that long term use is not safe.

Only in part.

Now what do you think about the people who want to remove your ability to use a firearm as a last resort? I can draw a direct parallel too.

Nobody wants to completely remove opioids though (well I'm sure there are some that do, but that is not what this lawsuit pertains to).

So, reasonable, common sense opiate control?

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:18:49 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

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This. I was in the chronic pain club for years and nothing worked except for hydro and oxy.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:19:57 PM EDT

[#34]

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So, reasonable, common sense opiate control?

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I'm not really sure that there is any parallel to be made. Firearms are a last resort. Avoidance, then deescalation would be the first lines of self defense. I can make an exact parallel to that statement though in regards to my herniated discs. I no longer do twisting motions while carrying heavy loads, and I stretch and do core strength exercises every day. If I start getting sore, I then take ibuprofen for the day. This practice has helped me to avoid another major incident/flare up which would force me to take steroids. If I let it get past the point of steroids, which I have skipped over in the past, that means that I'm taking pain killers and muscle relaxers.

Does that answer your question? It still isn't going to help with those suffering long term injuries where surgery is often the answer. As far as ineffective surgery or where surgery is not a viable option, there needs to be some leeway on pain management, while understanding that long term use is not safe.

Only in part.

Now what do you think about the people who want to remove your ability to use a firearm as a last resort? I can draw a direct parallel too.

Nobody wants to completely remove opioids though (well I'm sure there are some that do, but that is not what this lawsuit pertains to).

So, reasonable, common sense opiate control?

Exactly - all you need to do is prove you need it, attend a gov't sponsored anti-abuse class, and submit to detailed monitoring and tests. Common sense opiate control.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:20:21 PM EDT

[#35]

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I'm not really sure that there is any parallel to be made. Firearms are a last resort. Avoidance, then deescalation would be the first lines of self defense. I can make an exact parallel to that statement though in regards to my herniated discs. I no longer do twisting motions while carrying heavy loads, and I stretch and do core strength exercises every day. If I start getting sore, I then take ibuprofen for the day. This practice has helped me to avoid another major incident/flare up which would force me to take steroids. If I let it get past the point of steroids, which I have skipped over in the past, that means that I'm taking pain killers and muscle relaxers.

Does that answer your question? It still isn't going to help with those suffering long term injuries where surgery is often the answer. As far as ineffective surgery or where surgery is not a viable option, there needs to be some leeway on pain management, while understanding that long term use is not safe.

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I elected to get the surgery, the hospital gave me a staph infection in my spine.

I live in a level of pain everyday. Ii do not have the answers, and I am pretty sure the Dr's do not as well. I agree the use of opioids has been exploited as a fix all by a lot of pill pushers. I do know that the new laws have put patients in a very difficult situation.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:20:26 PM EDT

[#36]

Just another example of government applying laws to every single person, because of the abuse by a few bad apples.
I shouldn’t be treated like a criminal because I broke me arm.
The funny thing is that opiates have few side effects.long term use of opiates? Constipation...

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:21:42 PM EDT

[#37]

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So, reasonable, common sense opiate control?

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You are being more obtuse than the OP is, or 60 minutes.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:21:54 PM EDT

[#38]

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Acknowledging that the opiate crisis exists has been one of the healthiest things for this country because it has exposed how many boomers are pillheads. Cutting off their drugs is getting to be almost as bad as threatening to cut Social Security.

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What's it to you what someone ingests?

You use the term pillhead exactly the same way the left uses "gun nut".

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:22:09 PM EDT

[#39]

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I'm trying to change it to jesus riding a dinosaur but it keeps showing up as my dog on my computer. What does it show now?

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That's God telling you that you're about to fuck up.

No, it's showing Jesus on a T-rex. Try logging of and back on, and no I'm not buying you a membership, I think you'll be able to see the new avatar.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:23:28 PM EDT

[#40]

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You are being more obtuse than the OP is, or 60 minutes.

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So, reasonable, common sense opiate control?

You are being more obtuse than the OP is, or 60 minutes.

No. Its a pretty direct allegory.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:29:01 PM EDT

[#41]

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No. Its a pretty direct allegory.

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At this point, I'm convinced that those who don't see the similarities are being willfully ignorant and deliberately obtuse.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:34:04 PM EDT

[#42]

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No. Its a pretty direct allegory.

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The alignment of the political means to disarm a society, and using the power to misrepresent a RX ?

I am trying to really understand, not being a typical GD'er

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:34:05 PM EDT

[#43]

Since the late 1990s big pharma with Gov't's direct restructuring of labeling have gotten millions, and millions of American's "physically dependent" on strong opiates...this isn't counting non prescribed addicts of opiates. Now they want to completely shut off the valve. That's some evil shit right there, especially considering millions of those effected people are baby boomers, and now are facing the prospect of not having the opiates when almost all doctors agree they actually have a proper place, and are needed in this manner.

I do hate to see young people, or middle age people given long term opiate pain management though. Whether they help or not, long term opiate use has dramatically effected everyone I've ever known to have taken them like that. The anxiety, and fear they have month to month in regards to being able to get their next prescription alone is awful to hear about.

Medicine in time will find the replacement for opiates I believe. I also believe until then, people should have the right to put everything from straight smack to doctor prescribed oxycontin in them if they wish.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:36:56 PM EDT

[#44]

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At this point, I'm convinced that those who don't see the similarities are being willfully ignorant and deliberately obtuse.

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No. Its a pretty direct allegory.

At this point, I'm convinced that those who don't see the similarities are being willfully ignorant and deliberately obtuse.

There is no similarity though. A better example would be...

Sig 320 goes to market. They sell a bunch of contracts. The gun is found to go off on it's own. Sig mulls around and sells more to the private market. Sig finally wakes up, realizes it IS a problem, then has guns sent in for repair so that they can't go off when dropped.

Oxy goes through testing, approved for short term use. Pays big money and places people to change labeling to long term use knowing that the drug is not safe for long term use. Drug maker refuses to make changes to drug labeling, all while knowing it is unsafe.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:38:47 PM EDT

[#45]

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Get government out of medicine.

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Not that I don’t sympathize with you here, but...

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:39:28 PM EDT

[#46]

Op what in the hell would you have people do?

I live in constant pain and have had a pain management doc for the past 10 years, and I taper myself off to nothing at least once per month just to prove to myself there's no issue, but this shouldn't be anyone's business but mine. Why in the heck should you or the government get in the middle of what's best for my family?

You or anyone else never give a good plan of what should be done in place of these "evil Opiates". It's such a silly liberal argument that these medications are bad so you can't have them, but you know some folks get addicted so everyone can't have them. Some people shoot up schools so you can't have a gun is the same retarded argument. How about everyone stays out of their neighbors life?

I get chronic kidney stones about once per month, and I'd love to see these people who keep saying we shouldn't have relief beg for relief from one kidney stone only to be told nope sorry you just need to stretch and push through the pain because hey you might get addicted. Keep this crap up and see how many suicides start happening.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:42:44 PM EDT

[#47]

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And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

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So, what would you have someone who is in excruciating pain and has found an opioid that works for them, take?

Just tough it out with some ibuprofen?

"Oh, you have 5 crushed disks and constant nerve pain? Well, we can't have you taking an opioid. You might get addicted. Much better for you to live in agonizing pain so we feel better about ourselves".

It's worse then this even. My wife manages a neurosurgeon practice and pharmacy's are refusing to fill scripts even after surgeries as written by the Doc's.

My FIl who has been on opiates for over a decade due to 5 hip replacements and a knee replacement was cut cold turkey. He never abused them, never asked for more. They let him live a more normal life because I just saw him the other day and he is in tremendous amounts of pain. The doc said unless have cancer or on hospice you ain't getting narcotics.

That might encourage someone to start killin' folks he figures needs it.

Or make legit street addicts out of them.

More than a few people have turned to heroin when they found it was easier and cheaper to get than their prescription pain meds.

And right there we have it.

Did the pain meds turned them in to junkies? Or were they always junkies as some in this thread have implied? Perhaps the most obvious answer is a combination of both.

Wow, that's a whole lot of dumb right there.

You didn't even consider that they might be in pain, just assumed they were a junkie.

Go sit in the corner.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:42:58 PM EDT

[#48]

Keep taking NSAIDs and other OTC long term and see what happens, most people take more then they should also!

But keep parroting what they're telling you.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:45:16 PM EDT

[#49]

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Op what in the hell would you have people do? I live in constant pain and have had a pain management doc for the past 10 years, and I taper myself off to nothing at least once per month just to prove to myself there's no issue, but this shouldn't be anyone's business but mine. Why in the heck should you or the government get in the middle of what's best for my family? You or anyone else never give a good plan of what should be done in place of these "evil Opiates". It's such a stupid liberal argument that these medications are bad so you can't have them, but you know some folks get addicted so everyone can't have them. Some people shoot up schools so you can't have a gun is the same retarded argument. How about everyone stays out of their neighbors life? I get chronic kidney stones about once per month, and I'd love to see these people who keep saying we shouldn't have relief beg for relief from one kidney stone only to be told nope sorry you just need to stretch and push through the pain because hey you might get addicted. Keep this crap up and see how many suicides start happening.

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At this point, I would take a kidney stone over this back. And yes, I have had them. This is stretching into months with almost no relief other than some temporary easing of the pain. At least a kidney stone passes rather quickly in comparison. It literally invloves my entire left leg from my spine into my hip, down my quad, through knee, I have numbness in my calf and down to my ankle.

Posted: 2/25/2019 2:47:54 PM EDT

[#50]

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Keep taking NSAIDs and other OTC long term and see what happens, most people take more then they should also!

But keep parroting what they're telling you.

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There are not known addictive properties associated with NSAID's, thus they are correctly labeled as non habit forming, but yes, long term use of them certainly leads to plenty of issues and is no better than opioids.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FDA And the Opioid Crisis (Page 2 of 6)

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