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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:24:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots I can say here.... have you ever attended a major pistol type match? 80% of the shooters have a 2011 or sparkly CZ. Any glocks you see are usually noobs who ditch them as soon as they can afford to upgrade. if you look at the few pro shooters who run Glocks the frame is usually the only thing factory on the gun, and that usually has some type of modification. 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:40:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey, GLOCK still dominates GSSF matches! 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:56:49 PM EDT
[#3]
I find it interesting that there is a debate about which platform dominates top tier matches while we pretty much gloss over that there are plenty of videos of the lowly Glock being used in the ultimate practical match, on the street, often with very good effect.
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Posted: 8/28/2019 1:27:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it interesting that there is a debate about which platform dominates top tier matches while we pretty much gloss over that there are plenty of videos of the lowly Glock being used in the ultimate practical match, on the street, often with very good effect. ETA: There are plenty of M/GM's shooting pretty much stock Glocks. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 1:56:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it interesting that there is a debate about which platform dominates top tier matches while we pretty much gloss over that there are plenty of videos of the lowly Glock being used in the ultimate practical match, on the street, often with very good effect. 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 2:25:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it interesting that there is a debate about which platform dominates top tier matches while we pretty much gloss over that there are plenty of videos of the lowly Glock being used in the ultimate practical match, on the street, often with very good effect. A Glock is fine. An STI is fine. If the shooter is worth a damn. A good shooter is going to get more out of an STI type gun than a bad shooter would. Hell, I routinely get smoked at matches locally by a cop shooting a freaking XD.
To paint with a very broad brush, cops in general would be better off with a Glock IMO, since they’re not all gun guys. Good luck teaching the ones that aren’t into guns about adjusting an extractor. Maybe this group is more into guns and maybe the STI will be a good tool for them. Or maybe they just wanted something to differentiate from the lowly “normal” cops. Don’t know, doesn’t affect me. I’m mostly just pissed at the money I’ve wasted on CZs, STIs, etc when all I needed to do to shoot fast is learn how to ride the reset on my glocks.... 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 2:38:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck teaching the ones that aren’t into guns about adjusting an extractor. Aftec *cough* ;) |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 2:39:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe this group is more into guns and maybe the STI will be a good tool for them. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 3:43:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was mostly my fault, poking fun at riding the reset on a Glock to shoot “fast”. A Glock is fine. An STI is fine. If the shooter is worth a damn. A good shooter is going to get more out of an STI type gun than a bad shooter would. Hell, I routinely get smoked at matches locally by a cop shooting a freaking XD.
To paint with a very broad brush, cops in general would be better off with a Glock IMO, since they’re not all gun guys. Good luck teaching the ones that aren’t into guns about adjusting an extractor. Maybe this group is more into guns and maybe the STI will be a good tool for them. Or maybe they just wanted something to differentiate from the lowly “normal” cops. Don’t know, doesn’t affect me. I’m mostly just pissed at the money I’ve wasted on CZs, STIs, etc when all I needed to do to shoot fast is learn how to ride the reset on my glocks.... The Marshal's SOG are already using 1911's so the platform is in service with them and I guess it is an upgrade to the platform they are looking at. I'm curious what they will do for field available repairs versus what they may have to send to the manufacturer if they have a mechanical issue. With so few Marshal's in SOG, I don't really know how their armorer availability works when you compare the 2011 to the basic course offered by the likes of Glock and some of the other big names. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 4:10:54 PM EDT
[#10]
So they dumped their Glocks and bought nickel-plated sissy pistols?
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Posted: 8/28/2019 4:13:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they dumped their Glocks and bought nickel-plated sissy pistols? |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 4:25:58 PM EDT
[#12]
So are the grip safeties going to be pinned?
Seeing how the XD is hated on here for that as well as other reasons. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 4:52:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's probably referring to the fact that only STI owns the designation "2011" as a trademark to refer to the Strayer-Tripp modular grip frame design. It's much like the "only Armalite makes an AR-10" argument that we've had here for years. Obviously, there are other companies making frames of this style, to include Cheely / CK, Phoenix Trinity, Brazos Custom, etc. EDC 9 would not be considered a 2011, much like a Para Ordnance style frame would not be considered a 2011. A rule of thumb is that if it doesn't use 2011 mags, it's not a 2011. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 5:16:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So are the grip safeties going to be pinned? Seeing how the XD is hated on here for that as well as other reasons. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 5:30:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would hope not. I like grip safeties in general, and they're 100% necessary on 1911s, especially if you have ambi and or extended safeties on them. There's no way I would ever carry a 1911 without a grip safety. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 5:46:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Wilson EDC X9 doesn't use one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would hope not. I like grip safeties in general, and they're 100% necessary on 1911s, especially if you have ambi and or extended safeties on them. There's no way I would ever carry a 1911 without a grip safety. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 5:55:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The SVI doesn't either. 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 5:55:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Wilson EDC X9 doesn’t use one.
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:11:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To each their own. Just don't get in front of me if you have one in a shoulder holster. The first 4 that I though of, stop being silly. CZ SAO Sig Sauer Legion Browning Hi Power Wilson EDC X9 |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:27:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of yall are thicker than a HK Mark 23.
I'm laughing my ass off at the "Glocks shoot fast because you can ride the reset" just like everyone else is.
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:29:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Single action guns without grip safeties The first 4 that I though of, stop being silly. CZ SAO Sig Sauer Legion Browning Hi Power Wilson EDC X9 |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:31:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was gonna say, I don’t remember you posting stupid nonsense. I feel better now
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:33:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never carried any of those, so I can't speak to them. But I used to carry a 1911, and the danger is real. Something about the way they carry you're going to inadvertently deactivate the safety sooner or later. It's no biggie when the grip safety is in play, but it would be a highly dangerous situation if the grip safety were disabled, especially if you had a hair trigger like most of them nowadays seem to. Use a good holster. Never deactivated the safeties on any of my safety equipped CZs when I carried them. Most of them with extended ambi safeties. Never had a safety flipped off a 1911 when I was carrying it either. Don’t use shit holsters and it’s not a problem. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:41:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.45 can do better through barriers. I'll take a .45 over a 9mm for shooting through a deer shoulder any day. Never was able to do direct comparacents on people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
https://i.imgflip.com/18tw5u.jpg Never was able to do direct comparacents on people. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:49:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would hope not. I like grip safeties in general, and they're 100% necessary on 1911s, especially if you have ambi and or extended safeties on them. There's no way I would ever carry a 1911 without a grip safety. The Army insisted. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:57:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve carried 2 out of the 4. Use a good holster. Never deactivated the safeties on any of my safety equipped CZs when I carried them. Most of them with extended ambi safeties. Never had a safety flipped off a 1911 when I was carrying it either. Don’t use shit holsters and it’s not a problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve carried 2 out of the 4. Use a good holster. Never deactivated the safeties on any of my safety equipped CZs when I carried them. Most of them with extended ambi safeties. Never had a safety flipped off a 1911 when I was carrying it either. Don’t use shit holsters and it’s not a problem.
Seriously, never used a shit holster in my life. That's great for you that it's never happened, but it's a very common problem. You would be crazy to assume it's never going to happen to you just because you have a high quality holster. All you have to do is brush up against something, get it snagged on your seat belt, hit it with your arm, whatever. It can happen to anyone, regardless of what kind of holster they have. Quoted: The Prophet John Moses Browning, may peace be upon him, never wanted a grip safety. The Army insisted. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 7:09:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll have you know my Uncle Mike makes fine holsters.
Seriously, never used a shit holster in my life. That's great for you that it's never happened, but it's a very common problem. You would be crazy to assume it's never going to happen to you just because you have a high quality holster. All you have to do is brush up against something, get it snagged on your seat belt, hit it with your arm, whatever. It can happen to anyone, regardless of what kind of holster they have. With the non ambi milspec safety it's probably not absolutely necessary, but with the extended and especially the ambi extended safeties, which are pretty much standard now, it's not optional in my opinion. Like I said, to each their own, but I think it's beyond reckless. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:37:04 PM EDT
[#28]
To each their own. I read a post the other day from some dude who says he refuses to carry a 1911 without the series 80 firing pin safety.
First time I’ve heard someone say that in my 44 yeas. Usually I hear the exact opposite. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:49:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, you're flat out misinformed here. 9x19 is one of the deepest penetrating "real" pistol calibers there is. Sheet metal, plexiglass hardwood etc stop .45acp way more easily. .45acp may break bone and concrete blocks more easily because of the increase in muzzle energy, however I said barrier penetration, meaning passing through the barrier. 9mm simply does this far better, tested it myself with a full size 1911 with 230gr FMJ vs 124gr 9x19 out of a 4" compact 9mm. 9 punches through thicknesses of the above mentioned materials that stop the .45acp. .45 makes a big ol dent though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
https://i.imgflip.com/18tw5u.jpg Never was able to do direct comparacents on people. I've had 124 NATO, 147 gold dot stopped by a deer shoulder. I've never had a 45acp get stopped. Wether fmj or gold dot. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:57:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Hilton Yam published a piece on 1911s for duty where he said each person should be issued two or the agency should have a bunch of extra guns to issue out when a gun is being serviced. Would this be the same for the STI guns?
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:59:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Ask Hilton.
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:02:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really a "carry" gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The SVI doesn't either. 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:10:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seriously, never used a shit holster in my life. That's great for you that it's never happened, but it's a very common problem. You would be crazy to assume it's never going to happen to you just because you have a high quality holster. All you have to do is brush up against something, get it snagged on your seat belt, hit it with your arm, whatever. It can happen to anyone, regardless of what kind of holster they have. Even if you consider the remote possibility of the safety being swept off inadvertently as a risk worth worrying about, a quality holster that completely and securely covers the trigger will prevent the trigger from moving. Which is why I said, use a quality holster, and roll on. Just like you would with a Glock or any other gun. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:10:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it interesting that there is a debate about which platform dominates top tier matches while we pretty much gloss over that there are plenty of videos of the lowly Glock being used in the ultimate practical match, on the street, often with very good effect. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:12:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nah, para ordinance was about that in the Clinton era and weren't that good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Wow $130 pistol mags. Is that an industry first? |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:15:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's probably because Safariland is a good company and continually improves their products, a RDS holster is probably a newer production model. I believe the 7TS resolved this issue as well. Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of level 3 ALS WML capable Glock holsters in service currently have the problem in question. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Umm I went and checked my 6360RDS for my Glock 17 and I couldn't stick my finger inside.  Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of level 3 ALS WML capable Glock holsters in service currently have the problem in question. Sounds like they should be replaced. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:25:30 PM EDT
[#37]
G19 with a boat load of training ammo
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:07:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding, as if the success of match toys translates into street use. Glocks are more than adequate for their intended purpose, and anyone who cant shoot one to an acceptable level of combat accuracy isnt worth a fuck as a pistol shot to begin with. Same goes for nearly every other prominent auto pistol on the market. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 12:04:14 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the vast majority of level 3 als wml capable Glock holsters in service are of a shit design? Sounds like they should be replaced. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 12:12:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Early 6360s were bad for allowing fingers and other objects to get inside the trigger guard. The newer designs have fixed this issue
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 12:29:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Formula 1 drivers are chumps and they should be able to win with an IROC Camaro from the 80s. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 12:33:01 AM EDT
[#42]
USMS SOG
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Posted: 8/29/2019 12:52:08 AM EDT
[#43]
STI RULES, GLOCK DROOLS.
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Posted: 8/29/2019 1:10:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Safariland ALS I used at work 10 years ago exposed a tiny part of the back of the trigger guard of my G17 / TLR-1 combo. Unless you reached in with a coat hanger, bent into a hook, like a back-alley abortionist, you weren't going to pull that trigger while holstered (and even then, it would take some SERIOUS finagling, especially with the NY1 trigger setup). Anyone who tries to sell that as a serious safety issue is full of shit. While it wasn't integral to the function of the holster (as far as I could tell), and could have been modified to give 100% complete coverage, it wasn't anything like some people describe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So the vast majority of level 3 als wml capable Glock holsters in service are of a shit design? Sounds like they should be replaced. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 1:13:30 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 8/29/2019 1:19:24 AM EDT
[#46]
What a gross and unnecessary purchase. Fuck the taxpayers I guess.
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Posted: 8/29/2019 1:55:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Lots of folks in this thread who have no personal experience with STI sure like to throw their opinion around like they know everything. I have no problem with the expenditure and would carry my STI as a duty gun with no hesitation. It's an awesome platform and in my personal experience has been 100% reliable with every type of ammunition I have thrown at it.
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Posted: 8/29/2019 1:56:19 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Formula 1 drivers are chumps and they should be able to win with an IROC Camaro from the 80s. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 2:03:18 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice straw man argument. Brilliant comparison! Army rangers and socom make due with glocks in active war zones. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 2:05:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots I can say here.... have you ever attended a major pistol type match? 80% of the shooters have a 2011 or sparkly CZ. Any glocks you see are usually noobs who ditch them as soon as they can afford to upgrade. if you look at the few pro shooters who run Glocks the frame is usually the only thing factory on the gun, and that usually has some type of modification. edit* I was late in on that one Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Straight facts. It’s why GLOCK dominates any shooting sport that involves shooting fast. 80% of the shooters have a 2011 or sparkly CZ. Any glocks you see are usually noobs who ditch them as soon as they can afford to upgrade. if you look at the few pro shooters who run Glocks the frame is usually the only thing factory on the gun, and that usually has some type of modification. edit* I was late in on that one (Would have been second if I didnt get fucked on a reshoot) |
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