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Posted: 1/3/2020 7:41:59 AM EDT
[#1]
@sgthatred
At least tell us this: Is that a generated image or an actual picture? I can not tell. Looks too perfect to be a picture. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appears to be a .308 AR-180 inspired battle carbine. Wood because that is easy to use on a prototype build. 
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Posted: 1/3/2020 9:31:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 10:04:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmm, color me intrigued. A commercial AR-16 was something I never thought would exist. Looks like 2020 might be cool for the gun collection and hard on the wallet! Best year(s) EVER (2019-2020+). Time to break free from the AR-15 and not be stuck with the same old shit. AR-15 innovation has hit its end. New beginnings with new ideas and I love the return of anything AR-180 inspired. If it has a buffer tube it is old shit with market full and old ideas going nowhere. Que the pic of Disco is dead with huge pile of Disco records being blown up. Replace the records with buffer tubes! Enjoy the AR-15 as a thing of the past fun while it lasted. 
Que the pic of Back to the future, future shop window, add an AR-15. 
2019 called, it wants its AR-15 and buffer tube back. |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:04:51 AM EDT
[#4]
as long as it is all metal and no polymer
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:08:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something about the carbine version speaks to me. Like it's screams post-apocalypse assault rifle. http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/B06DA21B-634F-4D89-A58A-22C7557945A8-1024x768.jpeg 
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:08:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at how MarColMar is doing the Cetme L's and LC's and do it that way. All original features, with fantastic quality, and a low profile optional rail for optics...perfect. Do it right and it could probably find it's way in among these guys... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/84523/20190828_174220_jpg-1218740.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/84523/20190424_115020_jpg-1218738.JPG |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:10:16 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd rather have another Daewoo.
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:15:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a B. Gotta remember to buy one of spuds, receivers. Mine is set up with the sormworks hinge and folds. I'd buy another if they had a rail. My MI mount was shit and so no optic mounted on mine. It would be real simple to make a version that utilized AR barrels and hand guards. Steel or Aluminum lower. Ar mags. How about an AR18? That was 308 size right? That would rock. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:18:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:23:19 AM EDT
[#10]
It is a rendering of a Solidworks model I did of the AR16 from the original drawings. The original drawings are a mess and I am getting them straightened out to produce a semi copy of the AR16. The project is still a couple of years off due to the amount of stampings involved in the gun.
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:35:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Biggest factor is price. |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 11:41:57 AM EDT
[#12]
Only if it:
- has a folding stock - takes AR mags - costs less than $1000 |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 1:53:50 PM EDT
[#13]
I think the upper from the AR180B would be fine - just change the lower to Aluminum and add a good folding mechanism.
I would hope they can keep the cost down. That was the whole point of the way that gun was made originally. I always wondered if somebody else made those stamped steel AR180B uppers for them??? |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 2:00:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Nope
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Posted: 1/3/2020 2:04:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the upper from the AR180B would be fine - just change the lower to Aluminum and add a good folding mechanism. I would hope they can keep the cost down. That was the whole point of the way that gun was made originally. I always wondered if somebody else made those stamped steel AR180B uppers for them??? The problem with the ones available now are 98% of them are in 1994 ban config. The bolt is also not chromed like the AR-180. I am telling you the AR-180B is a great rifle when modified with a NDS-18S lower and folding adapter. Do not pass on one for sale if you see one at $700-$900. They can be had for that price. At least 3 this last year on GB. |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 2:25:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a rendering of a Solidworks model I did of the AR16 from the original drawings. The original drawings are a mess and I am getting them straightened out to produce a semi copy of the AR16. The project is still a couple of years off due to the amount of stampings involved in the gun. https://i.imgur.com/aCOQIVF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qXG1m5E.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JOfVk3b.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0K4HfVW.jpg 
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Posted: 1/3/2020 5:30:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell Chuck to finish that VG1-5 and git a move on................. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is a rendering of a Solidworks model I did of the AR16 from the original drawings. The original drawings are a mess and I am getting them straightened out to produce a semi copy of the AR16. The project is still a couple of years off due to the amount of stampings involved in the gun. https://i.imgur.com/aCOQIVF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/qXG1m5E.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JOfVk3b.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0K4HfVW.jpg |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 5:40:15 PM EDT
[#18]
No. Never had any interest in Armalite.
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Posted: 1/3/2020 7:33:19 PM EDT
[#19]
I only want one on the one day a year everyone pretends to be Irish.
 Irish Rebel Songs - My Little Armalite (lyrics) |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 7:49:30 PM EDT
[#20]
At the right price and Stanag compatible I would definitely pick one up.
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Posted: 1/3/2020 7:52:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Depends on how they planning to do a backwards compatibility with the original and B series.
Then it depends on BigRix is going crazy with more projects. |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 8:00:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Never had any interest in Armalite. 
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Posted: 1/3/2020 8:00:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what this thread is about. AR-180s are mostly nostalgia. No one buys one because they think it is better for fighting than an AR-15. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You put lipstick on your guns, too? I don't understand why anyone cares about a gun's aesthetics. It's a fucking tool with one job: To kill shit. The AR-18 proper may not have caught on, but its operating mechanisms definitely did. An updated AR-18/AR-180 would probably do just fine as a fighting gun. At this point, I don't see any way they can do the stampings without incurring costs that will make these have a huge price tag (and I don't think the demand is there for the volume to change that). Machining the parts that were originally stamped (and perhaps out of aluminum as much as possible), but otherwise keeping everything else in-spec/interchangeable as much as possible with the originals would be the best way to go about it and keep the costs reasonable, I'd thing. A modernized one might use a different folding stock mechanism (and perhaps a better folding stock design, as well), AR-15 magazine catch (and maybe FCG, too), rail on top instead of the proprietary scope mount, and incorporation of some modularity into the design, including some way to attach FF railed handguards and such. |
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Posted: 1/3/2020 8:10:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmm, color me intrigued. A commercial AR-16 was something I never thought would exist. Looks like 2020 might be cool for the gun collection and hard on the wallet! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 4:49:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The irony in this statement is just how many modern firearms use the AR-18 mechanism and are essentially AR-18s with a different external appearance. The AR-18 proper may not have caught on, but its operating mechanisms definitely did. An updated AR-18/AR-180 would probably do just fine as a fighting gun. At this point, I don't see any way they can do the stampings without incurring costs that will make these have a huge price tag (and I don't think the demand is there for the volume to change that). Machining the parts that were originally stamped (and perhaps out of aluminum as much as possible), but otherwise keeping everything else in-spec/interchangeable as much as possible with the originals would be the best way to go about it and keep the costs reasonable, I'd thing. A modernized one might use a different folding stock mechanism (and perhaps a better folding stock design, as well), AR-15 magazine catch (and maybe FCG, too), rail on top instead of the proprietary scope mount, and incorporation of some modularity into the design, including some way to attach FF railed handguards and such. 
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Posted: 1/4/2020 5:25:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So basically a BRN-180 build. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The irony in this statement is just how many modern firearms use the AR-18 mechanism and are essentially AR-18s with a different external appearance. The AR-18 proper may not have caught on, but its operating mechanisms definitely did. An updated AR-18/AR-180 would probably do just fine as a fighting gun. At this point, I don't see any way they can do the stampings without incurring costs that will make these have a huge price tag (and I don't think the demand is there for the volume to change that). Machining the parts that were originally stamped (and perhaps out of aluminum as much as possible), but otherwise keeping everything else in-spec/interchangeable as much as possible with the originals would be the best way to go about it and keep the costs reasonable, I'd thing. A modernized one might use a different folding stock mechanism (and perhaps a better folding stock design, as well), AR-15 magazine catch (and maybe FCG, too), rail on top instead of the proprietary scope mount, and incorporation of some modularity into the design, including some way to attach FF railed handguards and such. But ultimately, I'd rather have just a modernized AR-180 over an adaptation to the AR-15 platform that uses the basic AR-18 operating mechanism. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 7:11:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IF it doesn't cost more than a comparable AR. Brownell's $800+ upper is wildly overpriced. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 7:14:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It'd be neat for sure. Stoner seemed to have a thing for 7.62mm rifles and a preference for developing them. AR-10/AR-16/Stoner-62/SR-25. The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:22:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
30.06 not 7.62 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:29:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.30 is 7.62mm. But anyways, the rifles he developed were in 7.62mm NATO, which in its military load is roughly equivalent to .30-06. From what I understand he's never been that fond of intermediate cartridges. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. “Stoner joining ArmaLite coincided with his development of what he called the M-8, an “autorifle” that subsequently became known as the X-01, chambered in .30-06, not the new .308 T65 round then in development. This was Stoner’s first step toward the AR-10. While the X-01 differed massively from the later AR-10s, it featured the in-line profile, rotating bolt and direct gas impingement system which would remain fundamental throughout the development of Stoner’s Rifle. The X-01 was made from stamped steel and had wooden furniture, not the forged aluminium and plastic composite that later rifles would make use of, but despite this it still weighed just under 8 lbs., respectable for a .30-06 rifle, and substantially lighter than an M1 Garand.” |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:38:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Milling is going to add $$$
Kinda against the 180 thought line . And not necessary . I have an Ar180B and love it . I put a red dot on it and it is one of my go to rifles |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:46:11 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:48:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“Stoner joining ArmaLite coincided with his development of what he called the M-8, an “autorifle” that subsequently became known as the X-01, chambered in .30-06, not the new .308 T65 round then in development. This was Stoner’s first step toward the AR-10. While the X-01 differed massively from the later AR-10s, it featured the in-line profile, rotating bolt and direct gas impingement system which would remain fundamental throughout the development of Stoner’s Rifle. The X-01 was made from stamped steel and had wooden furniture, not the forged aluminium and plastic composite that later rifles would make use of, but despite this it still weighed just under 8 lbs., respectable for a .30-06 rifle, and substantially lighter than an M1 Garand.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. “Stoner joining ArmaLite coincided with his development of what he called the M-8, an “autorifle” that subsequently became known as the X-01, chambered in .30-06, not the new .308 T65 round then in development. This was Stoner’s first step toward the AR-10. While the X-01 differed massively from the later AR-10s, it featured the in-line profile, rotating bolt and direct gas impingement system which would remain fundamental throughout the development of Stoner’s Rifle. The X-01 was made from stamped steel and had wooden furniture, not the forged aluminium and plastic composite that later rifles would make use of, but despite this it still weighed just under 8 lbs., respectable for a .30-06 rifle, and substantially lighter than an M1 Garand.” |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:54:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Yes but must take AR mags. Otherwise true retro.
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Posted: 1/4/2020 9:57:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't really change anything I said. AR-10, AR-16, the 7.62mm Stoners, and the SR-25 were all 7.62X51mm rifles. That at least one prototype leading up to the oldest design before the T65 was adopted was in .30-06 doesn't really make a difference in this context. All of this is beside the point (that he seems to have full-power and .30-cal rather than smaller, intermediate cartridges; I think he may have even made statements to this effect as well). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg The Stoner 62 and 63 in their commercial guises (I forget; I think they may have had their own numerical designations, 66 and 67, maybe) or a return of the real AR-10 would be pretty neat, too. Not sure there's enough of a market to make any of that worthwhile. “Stoner joining ArmaLite coincided with his development of what he called the M-8, an “autorifle” that subsequently became known as the X-01, chambered in .30-06, not the new .308 T65 round then in development. This was Stoner’s first step toward the AR-10. While the X-01 differed massively from the later AR-10s, it featured the in-line profile, rotating bolt and direct gas impingement system which would remain fundamental throughout the development of Stoner’s Rifle. The X-01 was made from stamped steel and had wooden furniture, not the forged aluminium and plastic composite that later rifles would make use of, but despite this it still weighed just under 8 lbs., respectable for a .30-06 rifle, and substantially lighter than an M1 Garand.” Keep digging!
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:10:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought Mark bought EA from Carl Lewis. 
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:20:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Firearms have advanced since the AR-180. While I like all sorts of retro rifles, it is difficult for manufacturers to make money re-introducing firearms that went out of production years ago. Usually, firearms go out of production because there are advances in firearms design, or other firearms shooters prefer to buy. If a firearm (like the original AR-180) was still making profit for the company, they would probably still be making them. It may not be a wise financial venture to re-introduce a firearm that went out of production because it wasn't selling well. With all that said, I think it is neat when a classic design that has been out of production gets re-introduced. However, the new firearm has to be priced low enough to encourage buyers to spend their money. The re-introduction of the 30-06 caliber, semi-auto only BAR is such a firearm. While they are very cool, they are far too expensive for me to justify spending my limited firearms budget on one. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:28:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If he pulls that off, he could be looking at a promotion to Lt. Hatred. I WOULD LOVE AN AR-16. Back to the topic: I owned a VERY early AR-180 from Costa Mesa....selling it was one of the dumbest things I have ever done. The ONLY way Armalite would interest me in this is if it was as close to the original as possible BUT took Stanag mags and had a redesigned bolt hold open with a manual hold open option. THEN I would be in. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:28:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He did and I misspelled owner, there is no f-o-u-n-d in it ! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I thought Mark bought EA from Carl Lewis. 
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:32:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AR16 - the AR18 was developed from it. Project I'm involved with....... https://i.imgur.com/0GwfLDi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MXhtsun.jpg |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:33:13 PM EDT
[#41]
I have wanted one..
Reissue of original and under $1K Otherwise no interest. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:42:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Good at stopping with the toaster.
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:42:59 PM EDT
[#43]
It's been surpassed by better developments. Given the political climate now is the time to bolster what's already here, not add odd stuff to our collections.
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Posted: 1/4/2020 10:57:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it's the shitty plastic "B" model. Had one, it was a turd. Molded incorrectly, mags wobbled so bad I had feed issues until I used an epoxy & some creative sanding to get things to seat correctly. The buttstock literally fell off the "nub" it was glued to on the first range trip. I was never so angry at myself for buying a gun as that thing. Since yours was glued I have to assume that either yours was purchased used or was misrepresented as new. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with it. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 11:02:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of the 180b models I have handled including the one I owned, the butt stock was retained on the rear receiver "nub" by a socket heat cap screw accessed by opening the butt plate trap door. Since yours was glued I have to assume that either yours was purchased used or was misrepresented as new. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not if it's the shitty plastic "B" model. Had one, it was a turd. Molded incorrectly, mags wobbled so bad I had feed issues until I used an epoxy & some creative sanding to get things to seat correctly. The buttstock literally fell off the "nub" it was glued to on the first range trip. I was never so angry at myself for buying a gun as that thing. Since yours was glued I have to assume that either yours was purchased used or was misrepresented as new. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with it. |
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Posted: 1/4/2020 11:06:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Nope, brownells beat them to the punch with a product that I like.
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Posted: 1/5/2020 10:12:36 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Milling is going to add $$$ Kinda against the 180 thought line . And not necessary . I have an Ar180B and love it . I put a red dot on it and it is one of my go to rifles lots of initial cost setting up the line to stamp stuff. Machines, dies, welding operations. Once a line is is place they can spit them out at little cost. But getting a line setup is costly. Brownells stated stamping would cost too much. If no dies then milled upper and lower is the cheapest. NDS-18S lower(gray anodized) with Armalite name, logo, and info. Milled upper that is a copy of the 180 upper. Folding stock like the original. Would be nice IF an exact stamped copy of the original was made but i would buy if it was a near copy milled rifel. |
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Posted: 1/5/2020 10:20:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it's the shitty plastic "B" model. Had one, it was a turd. Molded incorrectly, mags wobbled so bad I had feed issues until I used an epoxy & some creative sanding to get things to seat correctly. The buttstock literally fell off the "nub" it was glued to on the first range trip. I was never so angry at myself for buying a gun as that thing. |
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Posted: 1/5/2020 11:01:22 AM EDT
[#49]
If Mark Westrom is still in charge I doubt they will make good decisions on the project. Nothing personal, just looking at his history.
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Posted: 1/5/2020 1:20:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Mark Westrom is still in charge I doubt they will make good decisions on the project. Nothing personal, just looking at his history.
He has not run the company for almost 10 years. |
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