PSA bufferless AR upper: "JAKL" - Page 7

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PSA bufferless AR upper: "JAKL" (Page 7 of 9)

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:05:32 PM EDT

[#1]

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https://i.imgur.com/ETpyRcM.png

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I don't see the attraction of putting one of these uppers on an AR lower. The big thing here is no need for a buffer tube. You can have a folder.

AR lowers use buffer tubes. I guess you could screw in some plug with a Pic rail on it to attach a folder, but why go out of your way to go Rube Goldberg?

It looks like the upper overlaps the lower, but it's hard to tell with all the shitty amateur camera work being done by the shotshow journalists.

I think that is the stock/brace adapter overlapping the lower as part of how it attaches to it.

https://i.imgur.com/ETpyRcM.png

Link to the video that screen cap is from?

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:06:32 PM EDT

[#2]

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without buffer wouldn't it kick harder?

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It's a .223, this shouldn't be a concern.

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:06:49 PM EDT

[#3]

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Link to the video that screen cap is from?

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Quoted:
I don't see the attraction of putting one of these uppers on an AR lower. The big thing here is no need for a buffer tube. You can have a folder.

AR lowers use buffer tubes. I guess you could screw in some plug with a Pic rail on it to attach a folder, but why go out of your way to go Rube Goldberg?

It looks like the upper overlaps the lower, but it's hard to tell with all the shitty amateur camera work being done by the shotshow journalists.

I think that is the stock/brace adapter overlapping the lower as part of how it attaches to it.

https://i.imgur.com/ETpyRcM.png

Link to the video that screen cap is from?

Not sure. It's not my crap, I just found it.

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:08:36 PM EDT

[#4]

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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/138374/11e8zh-1174712.jpg

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Exactly!

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:08:39 PM EDT

[#5]

I think those goofy rear side fins are somehow related to the upper being significantly wider than a normal AR upper?

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:08:41 PM EDT

[#6]

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Link to the video that screen cap is from?

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It is a photo at 1:12, I looked previously for any video of opening the upper but no dice.

PSA JAKL! 5.56 300BLK! 2020 SHOT SHOW! I'M IMPRESSED!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs5YTl1xdFg

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:13:17 PM EDT

[#7]

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I think those goofy rear side fins are somehow related to the upper being significantly wider than a normal AR upper?

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Yeah, I think you might be right. Maybe they (or someone) can come up with a cleaner end cap for the upper that’d mate up to a lower like the Brownell’s 180.

Attached File

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:13:25 PM EDT

[#8]

Different view with receiver open at 0:50

Palmetto State Armory JAKL: A .300 Blackout Piston Carbine [SHOT Show 2020]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWnR3CUMUw

eta: at 2:35 he makes it sound like the adapter fins are mostly cosmetic

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:18:08 PM EDT

[#9]

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Yeah, I think you might be right. Maybe they (or someone) can come up with a cleaner end cap for the upper that’d mate up to a lower like the Brownell’s 180.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/53338/515522F7-4D9E-4956-A412-DFAAE73CC04E_jpe-1252194.JPG

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Kns precision is what you seek.

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Posted: 1/27/2020 5:25:39 PM EDT

[#10]

I'll be waiting for when they offer uppers alone, so I can machine one of these into something a little more elegant.

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:40:12 PM EDT

[#11]

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And to expand on this, the majority of the AR aftermarket would only be beneficial to the lower even if they had made their own proprietary lower that could utilize AR parts.

Rails/handguards? Monolithic upper, no need. Adjustable gas block? Already have one. Barrel? Sounds like it won't be easily user serviceable like an AR so probably no drop in barrels. Charging handle? Different from an AR so will require its own aftermarket. Bolt and recoil system? Probably going to be unique to this system.

So now that pretty much leaves all the stuff you can do with a lower like stocks/braces, grips, triggers, etc. It's far easier and more logical to just use a pic rail adapter for an AR than design and tool for a proprietary lower that either has all of it's own stuff or that would work with all of the AR stuff.

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That’s the whole point. The AR charging handle suck major ass. The buffer tube sucks major ass. It’s terrible to suppress. WHAT AM I MISSING HERE?

Posted: 1/27/2020 5:40:29 PM EDT

[#12]

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Different view with receiver open at 0:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWnR3CUMUw

eta: at 2:35 he makes it sound like the adapter fins are mostly cosmetic

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Different view with receiver open at 0:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWnR3CUMUw

eta: at 2:35 he makes it sound like the adapter fins are mostly cosmetic

Thank you for those vids!

Random thoughts:

1.) Looking at the tail of the bolt carrier, it didn’t look rdias compatible as-is, but I’m not gonna give up on that one yet.

2.) I’m with the designer on the left side charging. I’d rather have his upper with just left side charge (just my choice). The geometry looked slick with hitting the bolt hold open while retracting.

3.) I’ve never been much of a piston fan, but this gun is really drawing me in for some reason. If the Wolf steel cased 300blk shows up cheap and plentiful, I might have to even buy my first 300. I’ve resisted all these years (being a Grendel guy instead), but this just looks too slick to pass up if it ends up being a decent product.

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Yeah, I think you might be right. Maybe they (or someone) can come up with a cleaner end cap for the upper that’d mate up to a lower like the Brownell’s 180.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/53338/515522F7-4D9E-4956-A412-DFAAE73CC04E_jpe-1252194.JPG

Kns precision is what you seek. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171734/99403376-1CF5-492C-A9D1-ACD3BE4F040D_jpe-1252200.JPG

Certainly a potential option. I’ll be watching for what ends up being finally delivered.

Posted: 1/27/2020 6:08:55 PM EDT

[#13]

It's a long stroke ACR, or an XCR with a Stoner bolt instead of the AK system, or a Faxon arak-21. They took the front of the B&T apc and switched the locations of the vents and mlok slots.

That price point is going to hurt the competition, which doesn't bother me at all.

That guy has my dream job.

Posted: 1/27/2020 6:15:35 PM EDT

[#14]

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I don't see the attraction of putting one of these uppers on an AR lower. The big thing here is no need for a buffer tube. You can have a folder.

AR lowers use buffer tubes. I guess you could screw in some plug with a Pic rail on it to attach a folder, but why go out of your way to go Rube Goldberg?

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Lower cost
Rearward compatibility
I have two law folders, and would prefer this upper due to the weight, and non cycling when folded when using a buffer type system.

Posted: 1/27/2020 6:29:16 PM EDT

[#15]

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Kns precision is what you seek. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171734/99403376-1CF5-492C-A9D1-ACD3BE4F040D_jpe-1252200.JPG

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Yeah, I think you might be right. Maybe they (or someone) can come up with a cleaner end cap for the upper that'd mate up to a lower like the Brownell's 180.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/53338/515522F7-4D9E-4956-A412-DFAAE73CC04E_jpe-1252194.JPG

Kns precision is what you seek. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/171734/99403376-1CF5-492C-A9D1-ACD3BE4F040D_jpe-1252200.JPG

nope. the upper is taller than the AR lower, like an MCX upper, so if you use the brownells lower or the KNS adapter that you are talking about, you'll have a giant gap at the back of the upper that isn't covered by the lower. Variable556 was suggesting that someone make an end cap FOR THE UPPER that allows it to mate more cleanly with a standard AR lower (such as brownells or one using the KNS adapter) that closes the gap but also isn't as big/heavy as this one appears to be.

Here is a photo of an MCX upper on an AR lower without the MCX adapter that compensates for the increased height of the upper, keeping the spring/recoil rods in place so you can envision what we're talking about. Not sure how the JAKL upper is configured internally, but the increased height is obvious from the above photos/videos.

Posted: 1/27/2020 6:46:30 PM EDT

[#16]

he also mentioned in one of those videos that they are currently at 5lbs 10oz-6lbs right now, but he hopes to be able to knock a few oz off in the final version. Also the barrels are not swappable, etc. More or less designed to be permanently installed.

And they intend to do a 9mm blowback version that uses a lower that takes scorpion mags. That would be cool, too.

Posted: 1/27/2020 6:49:36 PM EDT

[#17]

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That is a big WTF from me. What the fuck are all those add on pieces and why are they needed??

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https://i.imgur.com/ETpyRcM.png

That is a big WTF from me. What the fuck are all those add on pieces and why are they needed??

It strengthens the weakest point of the lower by passing any off-axis side-side force to the upper rather than the most delicate part of the aluminum lower. That is a very smart and forward-thinking feature.

Posted: 1/27/2020 6:53:09 PM EDT

[#18]

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he also mentioned in one of those videos that they are currently at 5lbs 10oz-6lbs right now, but he hopes to be able to knock a few oz off in the final version. Also the barrels are not swappable, etc. More or less designed to be permanently installed.

And they intend to do a 9mm blowback version that uses a lower that takes scorpion mags. That would be cool, too.

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I will be very interested how they got the weight that low. It's possible, as the similar PLR-16 pistol (also long-stroke 5.56mm of similar barrel length) proved, but not easy to do with a piston gun while retaining durability.

Posted: 1/27/2020 7:08:48 PM EDT

[#19]

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Aside from thew "wings", it's pretty similar in concept to the MCX adapter plate:

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/4/2401191-r-2_1.jpg

https://op1.0ps.us/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-sig-sauer-mcx-stock-adapter-kit-2401191-r-main.jpg

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Quoted:

https://i.imgur.com/ETpyRcM.png

That is a big WTF from me. What the fuck are all those add on pieces and why are they needed??

Aside from thew "wings", it's pretty similar in concept to the MCX adapter plate:

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/4/2401191-r-2_1.jpg

https://op1.0ps.us/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-sig-sauer-mcx-stock-adapter-kit-2401191-r-main.jpg

jUsT aS GoOd

Posted: 1/27/2020 7:09:51 PM EDT

[#20]

The unswappable barrel kind of concerns me. I probably won't ever shoot it out but still... that's weird.

Posted: 1/27/2020 7:46:10 PM EDT

[#21]

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It strengthens the weakest point of the lower by passing any off-axis side-side force to the upper rather than the most delicate part of the aluminum lower. That is a very smart and forward-thinking feature.

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That's what I was thinking as well. It also probably helps blend the square contours the upper with the round buffer section of a standard AR lower.

He made a comment about it "being the new thousand-yard gun." Tightening the movement between all axis between the upper and lower may be part of their attempt to put some truth in that statement.

Regardless, that non-reciprocating forward mounted side charger pretty much sells me on that upper.

Posted: 1/27/2020 7:56:54 PM EDT

[#22]

What a time to be alive

Posted: 1/27/2020 10:36:16 PM EDT

[#23]

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1. Why?

2. Which one? I have six AK's currently and a couple of x39 uppers for the AR's.

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Whatever, just nevermind.

Posted: 1/28/2020 7:34:50 AM EDT

[#24]

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What a time to be alive

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BRN-180
This
Sig MPX

The AR platform is getting a lot of innovation

We the consumer are the ones benefitting

Posted: 1/28/2020 8:01:55 AM EDT

[#25]

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For sure, I really hate how the 7.62x39 with it's tapered case never fails to extract properly, what fun is that? Straight-walled jammers you get to fuck with every 5 minutes are where it's at.

lol @ paying twice the price for identical ballistics and less reliability, .300 acolytes sure must like banging their rifles all day.

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Mags are the 2nd failure point. Just go .300 BLK.

For sure, I really hate how the 7.62x39 with it's tapered case never fails to extract properly, what fun is that? Straight-walled jammers you get to fuck with every 5 minutes are where it's at.

lol @ paying twice the price for identical ballistics and less reliability, .300 acolytes sure must like banging their rifles all day.

You realize that if they chamber this upper in x39, you can put it on one of their AK magazine lowers.

Posted: 1/28/2020 8:56:00 AM EDT

[#26]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWnR3CUMUw

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Interdasting...

“The complete rifle will be around $799 to $899 and the upper itself will be about half that”.

Posted: 1/28/2020 9:19:40 AM EDT

[#27]

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The unswappable barrel kind of concerns me. I probably won't ever shoot it out but still... that's weird.

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Unless the upper's primary structure is actually polymer (which it isn't to my knowledge) the barrel will be swappable. It might not be as easy to do as a normal AR but it won't be like a Kel-Tec where the barrel is molded into the upper cannot be changed ever.

Posted: 1/28/2020 1:18:22 PM EDT

[#28]

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Unless the upper's primary structure is actually polymer (which it isn't to my knowledge) the barrel will be swappable. It might not be as easy to do as a normal AR but it won't be like a Kel-Tec where the barrel is molded into the upper cannot be changed ever.

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Quoted:
The unswappable barrel kind of concerns me. I probably won't ever shoot it out but still... that's weird.

Unless the upper's primary structure is actually polymer (which it isn't to my knowledge) the barrel will be swappable. It might not be as easy to do as a normal AR but it won't be like a Kel-Tec where the barrel is molded into the upper cannot be changed ever.

He said not designed to be swappable. He said you'll break the screws trying to get them out due to the way they are installed and the thread locker they use. Obviously you can "get them out", swap the barrel/remove for barrel work, etc and then get new screws (maybe from PSA directly?) But it won't be a straightforward job that guys can do at the kitchen table or in their garage like most guns of this type (mcx, scar, AR, etc).

I mean even an AK barrel is technically "removable" by your definition. It just isn't happening for most of us.

Posted: 1/28/2020 2:29:37 PM EDT

[#29]

long stroke piston....SO is Arfcom back on the piston train?

Posted: 1/28/2020 2:45:43 PM EDT

[#30]

I can't wait to suppress one of these

Posted: 1/28/2020 3:38:40 PM EDT

[#31]

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He said not designed to be swappable. He said you'll break the screws trying to get them out due to the way they are installed and the thread locker they use. Obviously you can "get them out", swap the barrel/remove for barrel work, etc and then get new screws (maybe from PSA directly?) But it won't be a straightforward job that guys can do at the kitchen table or in their garage like most guns of this type (mcx, scar, AR, etc).

I mean even an AK barrel is technically "removable" by your definition. It just isn't happening for most of us.

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And I’m totally ok with that. If it turns out decent, I won’t give a crap about easy barrel swaps. My days of shooting out a barrel are pretty much over, but knowing how deadly PSA deals can be, I’d likely just buy a spare upper or two if I really take a shine to the platform.lol

Posted: 1/28/2020 3:44:55 PM EDT

[#32]

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That is a big WTF from me. What the fuck are all those add on pieces and why are they needed??

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Quoted:

https://i.imgur.com/ETpyRcM.png

That is a big WTF from me. What the fuck are all those add on pieces and why are they needed??

Likely a prototype for shot show. PSA will get feedback and likely make some changes before the final release. Not sure whats up with those tabs?

ETA: Rep from PSA states in the video @1:40 that it is a prototype. So glad to hear they are going to make that charging handle ambi!

Posted: 1/28/2020 4:02:09 PM EDT

[#33]

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You realize that if they chamber this upper in x39, you can put it on one of their AK magazine lowers.

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Quoted:

Mags are the 2nd failure point. Just go .300 BLK.

For sure, I really hate how the 7.62x39 with it's tapered case never fails to extract properly, what fun is that? Straight-walled jammers you get to fuck with every 5 minutes are where it's at.

lol @ paying twice the price for identical ballistics and less reliability, .300 acolytes sure must like banging their rifles all day.

You realize that if they chamber this upper in x39, you can put it on one of their AK magazine lowers.

As long as they build the clearance for the ak mags. Normal 7.62x39 uppers won’t work on the ks47 lowers.

Posted: 1/28/2020 4:05:03 PM EDT

[#34]

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Likely a prototype for shot show. PSA will get feedback and likely make some changes before the final release. Not sure whats up with those tabs?
ETA: Rep from PSA states in the video @1:40 that it is a prototype. So glad to hear they are going to make that charging handle ambi!

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To me it looks like the tabs are to close off the rear of the extruded receiver, since it doesn't mate up to a standard lower buffer tower just right. Square peg / round hole.

Posted: 1/28/2020 7:07:56 PM EDT

[#35]

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He said not designed to be swappable. He said you'll break the screws trying to get them out due to the way they are installed and the thread locker they use. Obviously you can "get them out", swap the barrel/remove for barrel work, etc and then get new screws (maybe from PSA directly?) But it won't be a straightforward job that guys can do at the kitchen table or in their garage like most guns of this type (mcx, scar, AR, etc).

I mean even an AK barrel is technically "removable" by your definition. It just isn't happening for most of us.

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Quoted:
The unswappable barrel kind of concerns me. I probably won't ever shoot it out but still... that's weird.

Unless the upper's primary structure is actually polymer (which it isn't to my knowledge) the barrel will be swappable. It might not be as easy to do as a normal AR but it won't be like a Kel-Tec where the barrel is molded into the upper cannot be changed ever.

He said not designed to be swappable. He said you'll break the screws trying to get them out due to the way they are installed and the thread locker they use. Obviously you can "get them out", swap the barrel/remove for barrel work, etc and then get new screws (maybe from PSA directly?) But it won't be a straightforward job that guys can do at the kitchen table or in their garage like most guns of this type (mcx, scar, AR, etc).

I mean even an AK barrel is technically "removable" by your definition. It just isn't happening for most of us.

Realistically, if I shoot out a barrel I have spent many times what the gun cost in ammo, anyway. I rarely hear people complaining how AKs suck because you can't replace the barrel.

Posted: 1/29/2020 5:17:08 AM EDT

[#36]

This thing is shaping up to be what the. ACR should have been. I'm both happy and disappointed.

My dick has been perpetually hard thinking about this gun. Don't fuck it up PSA!

Posted: 1/29/2020 5:40:33 AM EDT

[#37]

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This thing is shaping up to be what the. ACR should have been. I'm both happy and disappointed.

My dick has been perpetually hard thinking about this gun. Don't fuck it up PSA!

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I would say that award goes more to the Sig MCX... "ACR...Adaptive Combat Rifle".

Posted: 1/29/2020 8:14:21 AM EDT

[#38]

I wish the uppers were going to be released first so I could slap it on my SBR lower, but I suppose buying a whole gun is ok at that price. Another lower certainly isn't going to be a bad thing to have around. I've only got 12.....

Posted: 1/29/2020 11:18:47 AM EDT

[#39]

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This thing is shaping up to be what the. ACR should have been. I'm both happy and disappointed.

My dick has been perpetually hard thinking about this gun. Don't fuck it up PSA!

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ACR's are excellent. The action is remarkably smooth and they're very reliable.

Posted: 1/29/2020 4:54:04 PM EDT

[#40]

Did they give an Eta?

Posted: 1/29/2020 5:00:45 PM EDT

[#41]

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Did they give an Eta?

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I'm guessing later this year.

Posted: 1/29/2020 5:15:21 PM EDT

[#42]

Wonder how you'd ever get an acr stock on an AR lower. That would be sick on this thing.

Posted: 1/29/2020 5:19:04 PM EDT

[#43]

Looks like there will finally be a true budget monolithic extruded aluminum rifle ala CZ Bren, SCAR, ACR, XCR, APC, and the HK433. This seems to be the future of fighting rifles post Di AR15s.

Posted: 1/29/2020 5:28:34 PM EDT

[#44]

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Wonder how you'd ever get an acr stock on an AR lower. That would be sick on this thing.

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https://danhagadesigns.com/1913-rail-acr-adapter/

Posted: 1/29/2020 6:12:41 PM EDT

[#45]

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https://danhagadesigns.com/1913-rail-acr-adapter/

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But how would you adapt that to a standard ar lower?

Posted: 1/29/2020 6:16:50 PM EDT

[#46]

https://www.knsprecisioninc.com/product/ar-mcx-stock-adapter-with-flange/

Posted: 1/29/2020 6:22:34 PM EDT

[#47]

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https://i1.wp.com/www.knsprecisioninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/AR-Pic-Adapter-Rendering-W-Receiver.png?fit=462%2C347&ssl=1
https://www.knsprecisioninc.com/product/ar-mcx-stock-adapter-with-flange/

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AFAIK, you probably could do this route but it appears PSA is creating their own AR-15 buffer tube thread to 1913 rail adapter for the JACKL so that the "lines" of the firearm don't look all jacked up.