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Posted: 7/26/2024 1:55:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: By admitting that a well educated lawyer doesn't understand the word he adds reasonableness to the deputy's response to the word. It’s reasonable to threaten deadly force if you don’t know what a word means? The reasonable officer standard ladies and gentlemen. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 1:55:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: When Grayson replied, 'Away from your hot, steaming water,' doesn’t it make sense that Massey's 'I rebuke you in the name of Jesus' was directed at Grayson for insulting her by implying she might throw scalding water at him? And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: Massey went to turn off the flame and picked up the pot. She asked where the deputies were going, to which Grayson replied, "Away from your hot, steaming water." Massey replied, "Away from my hot, steaming water?" and then twice said, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus." And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? Ironically, there's a great argument that she had a 1A right to say that without receiving retaliation as a result. 
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Posted: 7/26/2024 1:57:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By BenChoad: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? Plus we wouldn’t have insight into the broken culture some represent. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 1:59:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SmilingBandit]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: When Grayson replied, 'Away from your hot, steaming water,' doesn’t it make sense that Massey's 'I rebuke you in the name of Jesus' was directed at Grayson for insulting her by implying she might throw scalding water at him? And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? Reasonable cops threaten people with deadly force for expressing disapproval? In not sure that’s a position you want to take in public. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 2:01:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By BenChoad: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? 
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Posted: 7/26/2024 2:02:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Plus we wouldn’t have insight into the broken culture some represent. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By BenChoad: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? Plus we wouldn’t have insight into the broken culture some represent. It's like the freaks fleeing California then instantly demanding that Texans vote the way they vote and think the way they think. If you don't fucking like it here, leave. Don't demand that everyone else change. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 2:04:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: Presumptuous behavior is a problem, but this is the generation of entitlement, so stop acting like a boomer and get with the program. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By BenChoad: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? His purple hair and facemask were showing. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 2:10:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: indieguns]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Reasonable cops In not sure that’s a position you want to take in public. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By indieguns: When Grayson replied, 'Away from your hot, steaming water,' doesn’t it make sense that Massey's 'I rebuke you in the name of Jesus' was directed at Grayson for insulting her by implying she might throw scalding water at him? And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? Reasonable cops In not sure that’s a position you want to take in public. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 2:13:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: His purple hair and facemask were showing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By indieguns: Originally Posted By Mr_Nasty99: Originally Posted By BenChoad: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? His purple hair and facemask were showing.  |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 2:16:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PepePewPew: Let us assume everything you say is true. Heck, let's remove the badges for a moment, since this is just a voluntary discussion and they have no police power to arrest or detain her involuntarily. Two Jehovah's Witnesses knock on her door. She opens the door and talks to them. They walk in. She doesn't attempt to stop them, she just keeps talking to them. The conversation remains voluntary, and in the middle of some mild mannered kidding around, one of the Witnesses pulls out a gun and threatens to shoot her in the fucking face. Is the guy with the gun an immediate threat to which she may legally respond with deadly force? Damn fucking straight he is. Can she legally use any and all means to end that threat, up to and including picking up a RPG launcher and laying a grenade in his center mass? Yes, she can. If she attempts to defend herself from his felonious assault, does her self defense action entitle him to shoot her in the fucking face to stop her from defending herself? No, it fucking well does not. Does any of the above change if you pin a badge on the attacking felon? No, it does not. Your interpretation of the law is flawed in my opinion. Once you allow the police in without objection, they can be there and making them leave is not legally easy. If you don’t want them there, verbally deny them entry If you pickup a weapon, they can defend themselves based on there rules of engagement. Boiling water can cause serious bodily injury and justifies use of deadly force, IMO. If she called about intruders in her house, it is reasonable to assume they would investigate. So they had a right to be there. She escalated to force sufficient to allow them to respond with deadly force. He will walk of the charges. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 3:35:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Imzadi]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Herewego: Your interpretation of the law is flawed in my opinion. Once you allow the police in without objection, they can be there and making them leave is not legally easy. If you don’t want them there, verbally deny them entry If you pickup a weapon, they can defend themselves based on there rules of engagement. Boiling water can cause serious bodily injury and justifies use of deadly force, IMO. If she called about intruders in her house, it is reasonable to assume they would investigate. So they had a right to be there. She escalated to force sufficient to allow them to respond with deadly force. He will walk of the charges. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Herewego: Originally Posted By PepePewPew: Let us assume everything you say is true. Heck, let's remove the badges for a moment, since this is just a voluntary discussion and they have no police power to arrest or detain her involuntarily. Two Jehovah's Witnesses knock on her door. She opens the door and talks to them. They walk in. She doesn't attempt to stop them, she just keeps talking to them. The conversation remains voluntary, and in the middle of some mild mannered kidding around, one of the Witnesses pulls out a gun and threatens to shoot her in the fucking face. Is the guy with the gun an immediate threat to which she may legally respond with deadly force? Damn fucking straight he is. Can she legally use any and all means to end that threat, up to and including picking up a RPG launcher and laying a grenade in his center mass? Yes, she can. If she attempts to defend herself from his felonious assault, does her self defense action entitle him to shoot her in the fucking face to stop her from defending herself? No, it fucking well does not. Does any of the above change if you pin a badge on the attacking felon? No, it does not. Your interpretation of the law is flawed in my opinion. Once you allow the police in without objection, they can be there and making them leave is not legally easy. If you don’t want them there, verbally deny them entry If you pickup a weapon, they can defend themselves based on there rules of engagement. Boiling water can cause serious bodily injury and justifies use of deadly force, IMO. If she called about intruders in her house, it is reasonable to assume they would investigate. So they had a right to be there. She escalated to force sufficient to allow them to respond with deadly force. He will walk of the charges. You can withdraw consent for any visitor in your home at anytime and they need to leave with a quickness. Unless while that officer was there consensually he saw evidence of a crime, his ass needs to leave when consent is withdrawn. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 3:46:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: Fixed Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By indieguns: When Grayson replied, 'Away from your hot, steaming water,' doesn’t it make sense that Massey's 'I rebuke you in the name of Jesus' was directed at Grayson for insulting her by implying she might throw scalding water at him? And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? Reasonable cops In not sure that’s a position you want to take in public. While he eventually did kill her, the drawing of the weapon gave the appearance that it was a direct reaction to he words. That unreasonable decision lead to him unreasonably killing her, but it does stand by itself as a criminal act. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 3:52:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Herewego: Your interpretation of the law is flawed in my opinion. Once you allow the police in without objection, they can be there and making them leave is not legally easy. If you don’t want them there, verbally deny them entry If you pickup a weapon, they can defend themselves based on there rules of engagement. Boiling water can cause serious bodily injury and justifies use of deadly force, IMO. If she called about intruders in her house, it is reasonable to assume they would investigate. So they had a right to be there. She escalated to force sufficient to allow them to respond with deadly force. He will walk of the charges. That is some of the most retarded string of sentences I have seen put together. Minus a crime, if you tell them to leave, they have to leave. That pesky 4th amendment and all. Context matters. The cop, who is three times her size, threatened to kill her before she touched the pot. While he threatened her, he had his hand on his duty weapon. Look at the other cop, who was not a massive person like the other, he did not have his hand on his weapon and did not perceive a threat. When she threw the water, did you notice how much water was in the pot? Almost none. When she threw the water, it didn’t land anywhere close to him. She called them there, they investigated and did not find the prowler. They then wanted inside her home for reasons still not clear. if told them to leave, they would have to leave. It is called the 4th amendment. If you give a cop consent to search you vehicle, 5 seconds in, you can then say I no longer consent and they have to stop. The house is far more protected than a car. Why someone would make excuses for the action of another person you don’t know is beyond me. She was an old black lady, if you think this cop is going to walk, you haven’t been outside in the last three or four years. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 3:57:17 PM EDT
[#14]
As a non LEO, I would have to leave quickly.
He is legally investigating a potential intruder in the home and her erratic behavior turned it into an investigation of her to see if it was a false report or a verifiable intruder, so he has legal cause and descretion to remain. She tried to attempt serious bodily harm to a LEO and the results were predictable. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Herewego: As a non LEO, I would have to leave quickly. He is legally investigating a potential intruder in the home and her erratic behavior turned it into an investigation of her to see if it was a false report or a verifiable intruder, so he has legal cause and descretion to remain. She tried to attempt serious bodily harm to a LEO and the results were predictable. He wasn't investigating anything. He just wanted her ID because cops have a hardon for getting ID. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 4:13:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Herewego: As a non LEO, I would have to leave quickly. He is legally investigating a potential intruder in the home and her erratic behavior turned it into an investigation of her to see if it was a false report or a verifiable intruder, so he has legal cause and descretion to remain. She tried to attempt serious bodily harm to a LEO and the results were predictable. None of what you said is remotely close to the truth. They were about to leave and that big cop saw the broken car window and wanted her ID, that is why they went in her house. She never said an intruder was in her house and they never suspected an intruder was in her house. They never said anything about a false report either. So, you are just making stuff up trying to cover for them. If you are so confident in what you say, I will make you a bet, let’s say $250 he is convicted of some sort of murder. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 4:17:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Herewego: As a non LEO, I would have to leave quickly. He is legally investigating a potential intruder in the home and her erratic behavior turned it into an investigation of her to see if it was a false report or a verifiable intruder, so he has legal cause and descretion to remain. She tried to attempt serious bodily harm to a LEO and the results were predictable. 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 4:17:39 PM EDT
[#18]
For those who think this was a good shoot Name one other developed country where this would be acceptable ? ... how about just turning around and running out .. like what officers would have done in every other first world country .
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 4:32:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Al Jeerza’s video. The comments.
 A black woman calls 911 to report suspected intruder, shot in face by Illinois police |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 4:35:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By odiedodi: You can see the whole thing. She pops up, raises it above her head and chucks it at them.
I've seen this guy's video's before. He's quite convincing, but he's also an attorney and of course is only going to tell it from his clients side. Thanks for posting this. His video kind of glosses over this. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 5:12:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: It’s reasonable to threaten deadly force if you don’t know what a word means? The reasonable officer standard ladies and gentlemen. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: By admitting that a well educated lawyer doesn't understand the word he adds reasonableness to the deputy's response to the word. It’s reasonable to threaten deadly force if you don’t know what a word means? The reasonable officer standard ladies and gentlemen. Yep, defending shit like this is testament of what that person expects in their own future, the display is wishful in the thinking that there will be someone like them that will make an attempt to justify bad behavior. Bringing in ad hominem attacks that the family didn't care , why should you , please defend me ,I'm a cop. Proves how far some will go , as well as there state of mind. Callous disregard for life. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 5:36:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ulster]
[#22]
lol...any of you guys still defending this x-cop?
 Grayson’s behavior in Logan County led superior to ask, ‘How are you still employed with us?’ personnel records show that Grayson’s time there was fraught, though he was not fired by the department. Grayson’s file from Logan County shows he continued a high-speed pursuit of a traffic offender even after his supervisor ordered him to terminate it, a woman filed a complaint claiming Grayson tried to watch as she was strip searched, and her fiancé, who was in Logan County jail, claimed Grayson questioned him in front of other inmates as retaliation for his girlfriend’s complaint. After Massey’s death, questions arose about Grayson’s qualifications. Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board records show he worked for six law enforcement agencies around central Illinois in four years, despite two convictions for driving under the influence, a two-year revocation of his driving privileges and a general discharge from the military. Mural painted in Springfield for the murdered victim Sonya Massey.  
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Posted: 7/26/2024 5:39:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: parshooter]
[#23]
Re-uploaded after YouTube whacked it for some unknown reason.
Good analysis from an attorney/retired cop (Southern Drawl Law). His conclusion: the sociopath will stay in jail for a long time.  Illinois Deputy Murders Woman Who Called 911 For Help! |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 6:47:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#24]
Officials release autopsy results of Sonya Massey.
The autopsy shows a bullet fired by Deputy Sean Grayson went below Massey's left eye and exited through the back of her neck  Officials release autopsy results of Sonya Massey Full  Attorney discusses Sonya Massey autopsy report |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 6:58:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him??
I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:00:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. Remember though that he threatened to shoot her in the face before she even put her hand on the pot. So the metric is that being shot in the face can severely injure you. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:30:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Remember though that he threatened to shoot her in the face before she even put her hand on the pot. So the metric is that being shot in the face can severely injure you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. Remember though that he threatened to shoot her in the face before she even put her hand on the pot. So the metric is that being shot in the face can severely injure you. But that happened after a word that the officer may not have understood. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:34:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Officials release autopsy results of Sonya Massey. The autopsy shows a bullet fired by Deputy Sean Grayson went below Massey's left eye and exited through the back of her neck  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJbLpgdjdgFull https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onwdGiAv2TMThankfully it was quick and she won't have to endure the coming shitstorm in her name. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:41:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. -He entered her residence for reasons that are not clear, it seems he wanted ID. -He coaxes her toward the pot while she was sitting on the couch looking for ID. -She moves the pot toward the sink as if to dump it as officers move away. -He pulls a gun a threatens to shoot her in the fucking face because he doesn't like to rebuked in the name of Jesus. -She cowers down and says sorry as he decides to get closer to the "threat". -Only at this point does she appear to throw the water. This was a bad shoot and the officer is a piece of shit. His life has been full of bad decisions and poor judgement. How he was even employed is beyond me. He displays no remorse after the fact. She was obviously not 100% mentally there. This being the case, if they had concerns about her being near boiling water, they should not have coaxed her toward the pot. If they were legitimately worried about a "fire hazard" they should have just turned the stove off while she remained on the couch. If they legitimately thought she was a threat with the water they should have not closed the distance. The throwing of the water seemed to be a panic reaction caused by a man with a gun threatening to "shoot her in the fucking face" while aggressively closing the distance. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:43:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response. “Huh?” the deputy says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats. “You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says. He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows. “Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell. Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services. “Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says. Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.” Link |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:49:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Sonya Massey said ‘I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.’
According to some faith leaders and scholars, Massey’s near-last words, spoken twice in an even voice to the deputies before her death, carry a spiritual and cultural weight specific to Black church communities. “Every person raised in a certain kind of black church knows the power and gravity of those words,” Womanist biblical scholar Wil Gafney wrote on her website on Tuesday. “Those are the words to be said when facing the evil that has walked in your door and will soon take your life. It is not a prayer to save one’s life or for God to come down and prevent the flagrant act of violence to come. It is something between a benediction and a malediction, laying bare the wickedness of the soul encased in human skin standing before her.” Link |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:50:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Sonya Massey said ‘I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.’ According to some faith leaders and scholars, Massey’s near-last words, spoken twice in an even voice to the deputies before her death, carry a spiritual and cultural weight specific to Black church communities. “Every person raised in a certain kind of black church knows the power and gravity of those words,” Womanist biblical scholar Wil Gafney wrote on her website on Tuesday. “Those are the words to be said when facing the evil that has walked in your door and will soon take your life. It is not a prayer to save one’s life or for God to come down and prevent the flagrant act of violence to come. It is something between a benediction and a malediction, laying bare the wickedness of the soul encased in human skin standing before her.” Link Seems pretty on point. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:52:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. I don't know if it has been mentioned before as I have not read this entire thread... but she tends to the water only after the officers point at it and mention a "fire hazard". It does not appear that tending to the water at that moment was her idea. It looks like the officers gave her the idea that the water needed to be "tended to". Up until they start pointing at it and mentioning a fire hazard she was sitting on the couch looking for ID. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 7:57:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response. “Huh?” the deputy says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats. “You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says. He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows. “Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell. Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services. “Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says. Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.” Link Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response. “Huh?” the deputy says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats. “You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says. He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows. “Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell. Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services. “Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says. Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.” Link I heard water spilling like being poured down a sink in one of the videos. Was the pot full or empty? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 8:05:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rustypigeon: I don't know if it has been mentioned before as I have not read this entire thread... but she tends to the water only after the officers point at it and mention a "fire hazard". It does not appear that tending to the water at that moment was her idea. It looks like the officers gave her the idea that the water needed to be "tended to". Up until they start pointing at it and mentioning a fire hazard she was sitting on the couch looking for ID. Exactly. Cop told her to get it then threatened to shoot her in the face which he did. For those saying she through it at him, at that distance, the water is not going to do any damage. Kitchen duty in prison and he might find out what boiling water really feels like. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 8:09:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Has BLM starting Burning and Looting over this or are they going to be silent like every other bad shoot?
They only seem to Burn Loot and Murder when criminals rightfully get smoked. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 8:12:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Pretextual use of force.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 8:18:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Outside the discussion of the actual incident, this is a direct consequence of post 2020 law enforcement. Good people who want to do the job aren’t applying like they once did. Because of so few good candidates, departments, especially smaller ones, are settling for people that shouldn’t be hired and wouldn’t have in the past. Administrations have to stop settling and only hired good people. His prior military departure, previous complaints on the job and department hopping should’ve been red flags to never hire this guy. Academies need to stop making concessions on new officers as well. Hearing what type of waivers departments are asking for, and many that are granted for cops, in just my own state shows it’s a problem. Basically someone’s past criminal history would eliminate them but things are being allowed.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 9:09:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jsnappa]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CAsoldier: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. In this case all of gd, apart from 2 or 3, agree that Crump is right. It’s a reality that might be hard for those 2 or 3 to accept. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 9:12:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rustypigeon: I don't know if it has been mentioned before as I have not read this entire thread... but she tends to the water only after the officers point at it and mention a "fire hazard". It does not appear that tending to the water at that moment was her idea. It looks like the officers gave her the idea that the water needed to be "tended to". Up until they start pointing at it and mentioning a fire hazard she was sitting on the couch looking for ID. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rustypigeon: Originally Posted By realwar: The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. I don't know if it has been mentioned before as I have not read this entire thread... but she tends to the water only after the officers point at it and mention a "fire hazard". It does not appear that tending to the water at that moment was her idea. It looks like the officers gave her the idea that the water needed to be "tended to". Up until they start pointing at it and mentioning a fire hazard she was sitting on the couch looking for ID. I have never heard of boiling water starting a fire either. The boiling water claim doesn’t help his case based on his own words and actions. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 9:14:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: I heard water spilling like being poured down a sink in one of the videos. Was the pot full or empty? Agreed, she poured out the boiling water and at most was filling it again with "hot" tap water. Deputies should have been long gone by then, not sure why the went inside and had her sit down and look for her ID. She's clearly nutty and no threat was located. Adios! |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 9:16:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: I heard water spilling like being poured down a sink in one of the videos. Was the pot full or empty? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response. “Huh?” the deputy says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats. “You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says. He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows. “Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell. Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services. “Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says. Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.” Link I heard water spilling like being poured down a sink in one of the videos. Was the pot full or empty? Either way they will scream shit at you until they feel they can kill you. See the poor guy in a hotel hallway trying to play Simon says. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 9:19:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Either way they will scream shit at you until they feel they can kill you. See the poor guy in a hotel hallway trying to play Simon says. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response. “Huh?” the deputy says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats. “You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says. He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows. “Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell. Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services. “Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says. Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.” Link I heard water spilling like being poured down a sink in one of the videos. Was the pot full or empty? Either way they will scream shit at you until they feel they can kill you. See the poor guy in a hotel hallway trying to play Simon says. Watch your mouth. That was acceptable police work and respected cops on this board think he shouldn't have even been charged. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 9:22:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Watch your mouth. That was acceptable police work and respected cops on this board think he shouldn't have even been charged. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew: Originally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: Was she going to throw hot boiling water on him?? I suppose he could have run, however hot boiling water can severly injure you. The body-camera footage shows Grayson and another deputy speaking calmly with Massey in her home – at which point she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water. She then picks up the pot and the other deputy steps back, “away from your hot steaming water,” he says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she says in response. “Huh?” the deputy says. “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” she repeats. “You better f**king not or I swear to God I’ll f**king shoot you in the f**king face,” Grayson says. He then draws his firearm and points it at her, and she ducks and says, “I’m sorry” while lifting the pot, the video shows. “Drop the f**king pot!” both deputies yell. Three shots are heard. After a few seconds of silence, one deputy says, “shots fired” and calls for emergency medical services. “Dude, I’m not taking f**king boiling water to the f**king head. And look, it came right to our feet, too,” Grayson says. Minutes after the shooting, Grayson speaks to another law enforcement figure. “She had boiling water and came at me with boiling water,” he says in the video. “She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at (me) with boiling water.” Link I heard water spilling like being poured down a sink in one of the videos. Was the pot full or empty? Either way they will scream shit at you until they feel they can kill you. See the poor guy in a hotel hallway trying to play Simon says. Watch your mouth. That was acceptable police work and respected cops on this board think he shouldn't have even been charged. I'M SO SORRY I'M GOING TO STRIP AND SPREAD MY ASS PLEASE DON'T KILL ME! Kidding, some would probably take that as a threat also, we're so fucked. |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 10:57:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Several here have said 1st degree murder is over charging. Here's what Findlaw says it entails in IL:
"First degree murder is the most serious of the homicide crimes in Illinois. In order to prove first degree murder, a prosecutor must establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant killed an individual without lawful justification and either: Intended to kill or do great bodily harm (or knew that the act would do so); or Knew that the act created a strong probability of causing death or great bodily harm; or Was attempting or committed a forcible felony other than second degree murder (i.e. rape)." The State Police and Sheriff seem to agree with the first requirement, it wasn't lawful. "I'm gonna shoot you in the f-ing face" looks to lock down the second. Should he plea or take his chances? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2024 11:25:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PbSponge]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kharn: I'd give the cop the benefit of the doubt. He was instructing her to put it down the sink, she became non compliant, she sought cover, she made sudden movements while holding the pot. Sucks, but that's what it looks like to me. Kharn I mean she did all that after being told she was about to get shot in the fucking face for no reason/ little reason depending on how you take "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus". To me, semed to be joking with the non-murdering officer for suggesting she would throw it at him while trying to figure out what the cops wanted her to do with the pot they asked her to go fuck with. Bad time for kidding, but she's talking to him and he's nervously chuckling. All the "furtive movements" happen after "I swear to God I'll fucking shoot you right in the fucking face" and drawing a gun, and to me looks like panic while getting rushed and "fucking shot in the fucking face". She obviously wasn't all there, but hard to defend this shit even if you take the "rebuking" as a threat, backing up like non-murdering officer would be the logical move over immediately escalating to murder threats and then running into range of the "weapon". |
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VAT
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Posted: 7/26/2024 11:33:00 PM EDT
[#47]
So cop enters home without warrant or reasonable 4th amendment exigency. After being asked to leave and a small rebuke and some words he didn’t like after being told he had no grounds to ask for ID much less be in this woman’s home, he shoots an old woman in the head and kills her then refused to render aid.
GD has folks defending this? |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 11:51:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AsaphsArrows: So cop enters home without warrant or reasonable 4th amendment exigency. After being asked to leave and a small rebuke and some words he didn't like after being told he had no grounds to ask for ID much less be in this woman's home, he shoots an old woman in the head and kills her then refused to render aid. GD has folks defending this? |
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Posted: 7/26/2024 11:55:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By indieguns: When Grayson replied, 'Away from your hot, steaming water,' doesn't it make sense that Massey's 'I rebuke you in the name of Jesus' was directed at Grayson for insulting her by implying she might throw scalding water at him? And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? |
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Posted: 7/27/2024 12:08:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Watch your mouth. That was acceptable police work and respected cops on this board think he shouldn't have even been charged. That's funny. |
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